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Boat capsizes in San Diego, killing two and injuring seven.

S

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Rental operator in trouble

I believe the boat was rented, in which case there is some fault in allowing so many people on board (assuming they knew), but mostly it is a sad combination of an unsafe boat (MacGregor 26) and inexperience.

It appears they were operating with the underwater appendages in the UP position, which is not wise, but we have seen this before.

:esad:
 
Sven

Sven

Seglare
It was a MacGregor 26 !!?

There was a big lawsuit against them several years ago when one capsized with lots of people aboard due to empty ballast tanks (that is the 26, right ?).

Don't know the outcome of the suit but it sounds like a replay :confused:



-Sven
 
Jeff Asbury

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
If you search the news on this, there are some reports stating it was a 35 footer?

About 12 years ago I owned a MacGregor 22-2. Same as my friend Eddie's boat. It weighed only 1,800 lbs, w/ a 500 lb iron swing keel. No water ballast. A very tender boat indeed. There is a locking pin that must be in place once you have dropped the keel. If it's not locked and you do get knocked down, the keel will not help you in righting the boat. The PO told me he got knocked down one time and the boat did not capsize, but just lade down on it's side. He said he had to swim out to pull the sails down, then got everyone onboard on the other side and was able to right the boat. I always kept that in mind when sailing offshore.

I keep telling my friend Eddie that the MacGregor is not a Catalina boat, but I made a bad example when I used to sail mine to the Channel Islands from Oxnard. The scariest sailing experiences I ever had were on that boat. :scared: Although it was fun to sail. Kind of like a MG Midget compared to my heavy E-27.

BTW, MacGregor did make a 25' in the 70's.

Look at this Link about a MacGregor 26: http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html
 
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S

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Mac boats

Jeff,

If you look at the photos of the boat being towed you will see it is unmistakenly a MacGgregor..

That particular boat has a very unusual appendage configuration and depends on water balast for safety.

I have no issues with the swing keel Mac boats (but you DO want to lock the board down!), and in fact if I lived on a small lake and sailed in a local fleet of 20-25 footers, I would buy an old Venture 21, sort out the deck layout and controls, and go beat up the J 24's! There used to be a V 21 named Mar-V-Les which won the Ensenada Race (I think it was the SD-Ensenada, but still....). Downwind it was a rocket...The Venture/MacGregor line of boats has a place in the market, and there are thousands of them out there-but this model has a bad record..

Oh well........
 
Jeff Asbury

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Hey Seth, I guess I have not seen the shot of the Mac boat being towed. I just saw a upside down blue bottom painted hull on the CNN site.. What web sited did you see that on? Interesting to hear about the Venture 21 racing to Ensenada. Wow, yeah my 22-2 was also a Venture model.
 
S

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Sailing Anarchy

I think it was also on CNN, but the pics were posted to the thread on Sailing Anarchy-check the forums and you will see the one for this event (hard to miss)..
 
CaptDan

CaptDan

Member III
That particular boat has a very unusual appendage configuration and depends on water balast for safety.

When I read a cursory report about the accident this morning, my immediate assumption was a Mac26 was involved. Ten occupants, no ostensible experience and no ballast = bad news.

I would buy an old Venture 21

It's ironic you mention this because, years ago when I used to rent boats in San Diego, the Venture 21 was the weapon of choice. Those that were available for rental in Coronado were pretty beat up, though - one in particular flexed quite a bit, even in light air. Still a good time was had by all.

Anyway, I'm always sad to hear about sailboating accidents - especially the preventable ones. :esad:

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
S

Seth

Sustaining Partner
Flexy Flyers

Yep-I forgot about that part! If I got one I would do a little stiffening inside for best results..:cool:
 
Tom Metzger

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Sven said:
It was a MacGregor 26 !!?

There was a big lawsuit against them several years ago when one capsized with lots of people aboard due to empty ballast tanks (that is the 26, right ?).

Don't know the outcome of the suit but it sounds like a replay :confused:

-Sven
Click to expand...


Someone went to jail in Vermont a few years ago for having too many people on a Mac 26 without ballast and allowing two kids in the cabin to drown when it flipped on Lk Champlain. I don't remember the details.
 
Jeff Asbury

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Sven said:
Here's a picture of the boat before it capsized

http://i53.tinypic.com/bg7bf7.jpg

Link stolen from the discussion on Cruisers Forum.



-Sven
Click to expand...

After seeing this I think that proves we can no longer blame the boat. :esad: I think the time has come for mandatory skipper's licenses here in California as they have in other States.

Although, the photos of the boat I have seen almost looked like it had no keel at all. Even with the keel in the retracted positions on these boats, part of the keel should be visible. It could have possibly fallen off. Sheered pivot bolt?
 
Slick470

Slick470

Sustaining Member
The boat was a Mac26D. D is for dagger board. It apparently rides up in a slot like a big laser. So, if the boat was upside down the board could have slid to it's UP postion and would not be visible like the swing keel models.

In a previous life I had a old Mac22 with the 600lb iron swing keel. It did not have a lock to keep it down. I never had a problem with it not righting but the boat was pretty tender and went sideways in a breeze. I had it on a pretty shallow lake and the lack of lock kept me out of trouble many times. I learned to tack when I felt it hit anything bigger than a fish. Good boat to haul around behind a truck from lake to lake though.
 
Jeff Asbury

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Maker Says Sailboat in Sunday's Fatal Accident was Overloaded.

"Maker Says Sailboat in Sunday's Fatal Accident was Overloaded; Others Blame Wind Gust."

"Roger MacGregor, who produced the 1988 MacGregor sailboat, said Tuesday there are no weight restrictions on the boat but 10 people would make the craft dangerously unstable.

MacGregor, who is based in Costa Mesa, has spoken with investigators several times since the accident late Sunday."

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local...atal-Accident-was/CKyA1CZD3060Hq4hd7KDTA.cspx
 
CaptDan

CaptDan

Member III
I think the time has come for mandatory skipper's licenses here in California as they have in other States.

Not a bad idea. However some states' licensing exams are jokes, IMO.
I mean, how many different ways can you ask: 'How much alcohol does it take to become legally drunk?' Thank you! That'll be $10 please!:mad:

If there's going to be testing it should be comprehensive. Applicants should know basic rules of the road, bouyage markings, a bit about tides and currents, and mechanical issues. The test doesn't have to be a duplicate of the USCG Master's tests (WAY too hard), but perhaps more along the lines of those offered by the Power Squadron, or for sailors - ASA/USsailing, etc.

Simply put, testing shouldn't only be about creating revenue - it should be about training watercraft operators.

In my not so humble opinion.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
Jeff Asbury

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Yeah, I probably was a bit extreme in my statement "I think the time has come for mandatory skipper's licenses here in California as they have in other States" Right now in California they just offer a voluntary boating safety course. Now I think it should be mandatory!

After reading this: http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local...atal-Accident-was/CKyA1CZD3060Hq4hd7KDTA.cspx

I found this: http://www.heartofsailing.org/default.asp

The only sailor (George Saidah) of the boat involved in the accident supposedly has 40 years of experience. Here's his Bio / The Vision:

http://www.heartofsailing.org/mission.asp
 
CaptDan

CaptDan

Member III
Now I think it should be mandatory!

I agree - so long as it's a good preparation process, not just another way for the state to fill empty coffers.:)

The only sailor (George Saidah) of the boat involved in the accident supposedly has 40 years of experience. Here's his Bio / The Vision:

http://www.heartofsailing.org/missi...ng here.:confused: Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"
 
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Sven

Sven

Seglare
I really really dislike the idea of boating drivers' licenses.

The potential benefits are minuscule compared to the downside of building more bureaucracy.

Thinking about it some more, I don't dislike it, I detest it.

So there :egrin:



-Sven
 
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