NateHanson
Sustaining Member
By "tandem", do you mean the crown of one attached by a short chain to the shaft of the other? Or do you mean two anchors set on two separate rodes?
Nate
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Anchor poll
- Thread starter gareth harris
- Start date
By "tandem", do you mean the crown of one attached by a short chain to the shaft of the other? Or do you mean two anchors set on two separate rodes?
Nate
I sail my E33 along the coast of Maine and anchor mostly in mud and sometimes a bit of kelp. I still use the po Danforth 22 h. Although he only used 6 feet of chain and nylon 3 strand, we changed that to 20 feet of chain and 250 ft of 1/2 inch nylon 3 strand. We also pull up anchor by the arm/back windlass, otherwise would add more chain. Ths setup works extremely well for us except for difficulty getting it back on deck. I would like to add a roller setup on the bow to hang the anchor from and make retrieval easier but haven`t come up with an acceptable idea yet. The E33 has an anchor locker the just fits the 22H and rhode but the bow is very narrow so not much room. We are envious of the setup on the E35.
Twin Bruce 33s
I carried a 33lb Bruce, with 40' of chain, 250' of rode, plus a second set (same thing) in the locker... I used to be a CQR fan, until I got my boat (came with the twin Bruces) - now I don't think I would ever trust anything else...
//sse
I carried a 33lb Bruce, with 40' of chain, 250' of rode, plus a second set (same thing) in the locker... I used to be a CQR fan, until I got my boat (came with the twin Bruces) - now I don't think I would ever trust anything else...
//sse
We have a 35# CQR on 45' of 5/16" HT chain plus about 260' of 5/8" rope. We've never dragged in any type of bottom but we did have a problem setting it a couple of times. I think kelp got the better of the CQR. dragging has never been a problem but maintianing our swinging room has. We've learned that boats on combination chain/rope rode don't swing the same way as those on all chain. Apparently, many other boaters have not learned that yet. Add the tidal currents in many anchorages and going "bump in the night" is something that you do not look forward to. On top of that, as in previous threads, the Ericsons seem to "hunt" more than other boats.
If I was doing it from scratch, I would get all chain with a SARC anchor. I like the performance of the SARC's on short scope (as in the SAIL mag test). And of course a windlass. I'm in the process of putting a windlass in as our combination is heavy enough for a wimp linke myself to haul up.
Cheers,
If I was doing it from scratch, I would get all chain with a SARC anchor. I like the performance of the SARC's on short scope (as in the SAIL mag test). And of course a windlass. I'm in the process of putting a windlass in as our combination is heavy enough for a wimp linke myself to haul up.
Cheers,
Correction
After reviewing the post I referenced above I realized that I use an FX -37 not a 55. I'm on the road and couldn't go out and look in the garage. Thankfully I haven't had to use it in a while and forgot which size it was. Would have gotten a 55 but even when I was working for West it was a bit too much to pay.
Ray
After reviewing the post I referenced above I realized that I use an FX -37 not a 55. I'm on the road and couldn't go out and look in the garage. Thankfully I haven't had to use it in a while and forgot which size it was. Would have gotten a 55 but even when I was working for West it was a bit too much to pay.
Ray
Anchor Tests
I wouldn't rely on anchor test results for buying an anchor. Of course, I'm a fan of Bruce anchors which never do well.
Just look at the bow rollers of serious cruisers and you'll see that Bruce, CQR and Delta are the most common primary anchors by far. They need to be heavy though and backed with lots of chain.
In my experience, the folks that drag, tend to do so at night, in windy conditions and better than half the time they relied on a Danforth type anchor without enough chain. When the wind/current switched on them, the anchor broke out and then failed to reset. The plow types like Bruce, CQR and Delta don't usually pull out during such shifts but tend to screw themselves into the bottom. This was illustrated for me one day when I swam the anchor after a very shifty night and saw the chain pattern in the sand. The anchor chain had scribed a nice level 270 degree partial-circle maybe 100 feet in diameter around the anchor. The anchor which had 2 of 3 flukes buried when set the night before (typical Bruce set) was completely out of sight under the sand.
In Georgetown, the boats that drag most often tend to be the ones anchored very close together in an area right off the hub of cruiser activities well known as 'Teflon Alley' because of the poor holding. These boats often anchor with multiple anchors (that foul each other), short scope and in my opinion, way too close to other boats. When storms and squalls move through, the VHF can provide an evening's entertainment, listening to all the bitchin' and hollerin'.
Rather than keep anchor watches (which we'll do if conditions get bad enough) we set the anchor alarm on the GPS. However, we find that we get lots of false alarms mostly because the boat has swung around with a wind or current shift. What I really like is an anchorage with lots of room around me to were I can set the anchor alarm to 300-400 feet ... then I don't get the false alarms. Anchor watches shouldn't be necessary if your gear is big enough and it's set properly. We watch for the other guys when the wind pipes up.
On the technique side, we almost always lay out all 100ft of chain plus 10 to 25 feet of nylon with chafing gear over the bow roller regardless of depth up to about 20ft of water. Anchor chain in the well can't help hold the boat. If the water is deeper, we give more nylon. I prefer at least 7:1 scope and more is better. We seldom anchor in over 15 ft of water anyway and we try to give other boats as much room as possible. We also back down enough to straighten the chain then apply full power slowly to set the hook, all the while feeling the rode for the vibration that the anchor makes when it bounces over the bottom. Then we usually use the look bucket or dive the anchor to get a look at the set. In my experience, trying to set an anchor by hand is an exercise in futility. The engine does it better.
We find that our E38 doesn't swing any more or less than everyone else. Trawlers and catamarans swing somewhat faster and heavier boats seem to swing more slowly but eventually it all works out the same. About the only time we see boats lying every which way is when there's zero wind. I have also noticed that boats with riding sails seem to swing just as much although they swing faster when the wind catches the sail and slower as the sail stalls and shifts.
I wouldn't rely on anchor test results for buying an anchor. Of course, I'm a fan of Bruce anchors which never do well.
Just look at the bow rollers of serious cruisers and you'll see that Bruce, CQR and Delta are the most common primary anchors by far. They need to be heavy though and backed with lots of chain.
In my experience, the folks that drag, tend to do so at night, in windy conditions and better than half the time they relied on a Danforth type anchor without enough chain. When the wind/current switched on them, the anchor broke out and then failed to reset. The plow types like Bruce, CQR and Delta don't usually pull out during such shifts but tend to screw themselves into the bottom. This was illustrated for me one day when I swam the anchor after a very shifty night and saw the chain pattern in the sand. The anchor chain had scribed a nice level 270 degree partial-circle maybe 100 feet in diameter around the anchor. The anchor which had 2 of 3 flukes buried when set the night before (typical Bruce set) was completely out of sight under the sand.
In Georgetown, the boats that drag most often tend to be the ones anchored very close together in an area right off the hub of cruiser activities well known as 'Teflon Alley' because of the poor holding. These boats often anchor with multiple anchors (that foul each other), short scope and in my opinion, way too close to other boats. When storms and squalls move through, the VHF can provide an evening's entertainment, listening to all the bitchin' and hollerin'.
Rather than keep anchor watches (which we'll do if conditions get bad enough) we set the anchor alarm on the GPS. However, we find that we get lots of false alarms mostly because the boat has swung around with a wind or current shift. What I really like is an anchorage with lots of room around me to were I can set the anchor alarm to 300-400 feet ... then I don't get the false alarms. Anchor watches shouldn't be necessary if your gear is big enough and it's set properly. We watch for the other guys when the wind pipes up.
On the technique side, we almost always lay out all 100ft of chain plus 10 to 25 feet of nylon with chafing gear over the bow roller regardless of depth up to about 20ft of water. Anchor chain in the well can't help hold the boat. If the water is deeper, we give more nylon. I prefer at least 7:1 scope and more is better. We seldom anchor in over 15 ft of water anyway and we try to give other boats as much room as possible. We also back down enough to straighten the chain then apply full power slowly to set the hook, all the while feeling the rode for the vibration that the anchor makes when it bounces over the bottom. Then we usually use the look bucket or dive the anchor to get a look at the set. In my experience, trying to set an anchor by hand is an exercise in futility. The engine does it better.
We find that our E38 doesn't swing any more or less than everyone else. Trawlers and catamarans swing somewhat faster and heavier boats seem to swing more slowly but eventually it all works out the same. About the only time we see boats lying every which way is when there's zero wind. I have also noticed that boats with riding sails seem to swing just as much although they swing faster when the wind catches the sail and slower as the sail stalls and shifts.
Kevin Johnston
Member III
The poll should include a Bruce
Your poll should include a Bruce. I had friends that spent three years as a skipper and first mate on a large chartered sailboat out of the Virgin Islands and swore that the Bruce anchor was the best in all types of conditions and seas. They used many different kinds but never had a bruce pull out. So, when I was in the market to set up my bow spurt and anchoring system I went with a Bruce on my E27. I have always sleeped well under anchoring!
Your poll should include a Bruce. I had friends that spent three years as a skipper and first mate on a large chartered sailboat out of the Virgin Islands and swore that the Bruce anchor was the best in all types of conditions and seas. They used many different kinds but never had a bruce pull out. So, when I was in the market to set up my bow spurt and anchoring system I went with a Bruce on my E27. I have always sleeped well under anchoring!
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The "Rocna"
Here are some unsollicited comments from a Valiant 40 owner on another sailing list here in the NW. I have heard of this anchor, but this the first in-use report I have seen from someone.
Since this couple are not EY subscribers, their identity is ommitted. I do know that they have a number of years of cruising experience already.
J__ states:
"BTW, our new Rocna anchor impressed the ?>&%# out of me - it dug in so deep and fast that the bow actually pulled down hard every time on as short as a 2:1 scope with all chain. The only problem is that it digs in so well that a huge chunk of the bottom comes up with the anchor and we have to wash it off! I guess that is a small price to pay for not having to worry about dragging...."
Just another data point for you vikings to tabulate!
Cheers,
Loren in PDX
Here are some unsollicited comments from a Valiant 40 owner on another sailing list here in the NW. I have heard of this anchor, but this the first in-use report I have seen from someone.
Since this couple are not EY subscribers, their identity is ommitted. I do know that they have a number of years of cruising experience already.
J__ states:
"BTW, our new Rocna anchor impressed the ?>&%# out of me - it dug in so deep and fast that the bow actually pulled down hard every time on as short as a 2:1 scope with all chain. The only problem is that it digs in so well that a huge chunk of the bottom comes up with the anchor and we have to wash it off! I guess that is a small price to pay for not having to worry about dragging...."
Just another data point for you vikings to tabulate!
Cheers,
Loren in PDX
In And On Paradise
We have a 25kg Buegle with 350' of 5/16 BBB/SS chain. I used to have a real 45lb CQR with 350' of 5/16 BBB chain for about 15 years that was good package until we went cruising. It came loose a few times because of trash on the point. So I went looking for something better, that was tuff. This Buegle sets in a 3' pull every time and has only come loose once and that was my fault, too short scope on a down slope. We have tested in 50kt gusts for about 20min.and it holds like giant rock
Sid and Manuela
In and On Paradise 36c
Now in Venezuela
We have a 25kg Buegle with 350' of 5/16 BBB/SS chain. I used to have a real 45lb CQR with 350' of 5/16 BBB chain for about 15 years that was good package until we went cruising. It came loose a few times because of trash on the point. So I went looking for something better, that was tuff. This Buegle sets in a 3' pull every time and has only come loose once and that was my fault, too short scope on a down slope. We have tested in 50kt gusts for about 20min.and it holds like giant rock
Sid and Manuela
In and On Paradise 36c
Now in Venezuela
Dave Hussey
Member III
Bruce on a 27
Kevin,
I have an E27 too, and would like to hear more on how you installed the bow spurt (as you call it). Is it made for the bruce specificly? What size bruce do you use? Does it stick out far enough that the bow is protected from the flukes (or actually the plow) of the anchor? Do you have any pictures? Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions...Thanks.
On another note, 10 years ago we chartered a Catalina 34 and had to put out 2 danforths and swamp the livingston astern to act as a drogue in a very brisk storm. This boat had so little keel and ballast that it would actually swing completely broadside to the wind, shudder as if in a death throw, and then swing in the opposite arc. (fortunately once I swamped the dinghy, the motion was much more tolerable)....the rigging screeched and wailed like demons (which was very frightning, to say the least) and I was constantly concerned that the sawing motion, even dampened by the drogue, would part the anchor rhode, or worse, cause the single bow cleat to be torn from the deck. I cut the owners new garden hose to make chafing gear...and turned up Jimmy Hendrix on the CD player...My wiife has never gone sailing with me again. The down side of this is, hmmmmm, wait, I'm thinking....
Kevin,
I have an E27 too, and would like to hear more on how you installed the bow spurt (as you call it
). Is it made for the bruce specificly? What size bruce do you use? Does it stick out far enough that the bow is protected from the flukes (or actually the plow) of the anchor? Do you have any pictures? Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions...Thanks.On another note, 10 years ago we chartered a Catalina 34 and had to put out 2 danforths and swamp the livingston astern to act as a drogue in a very brisk storm. This boat had so little keel and ballast that it would actually swing completely broadside to the wind, shudder as if in a death throw, and then swing in the opposite arc. (fortunately once I swamped the dinghy, the motion was much more tolerable)....the rigging screeched and wailed like demons (which was very frightning, to say the least) and I was constantly concerned that the sawing motion, even dampened by the drogue, would part the anchor rhode, or worse, cause the single bow cleat to be torn from the deck. I cut the owners new garden hose to make chafing gear...and turned up Jimmy Hendrix on the CD player...My wiife has never gone sailing with me again. The down side of this is, hmmmmm, wait, I'm thinking....
Kevin Johnston
Member III
Bow Spurt
I call it a bow spurt because it jets out. It does make anchoring much easier both setting and heaving up. As you can see it hangs way clear of the bow. I love the lines of a Bruce and it looks clean hanging out there.
I extended the bow by about 18-24" with a fiberglass covered 1.5" thick marine plywood. It was cut to fit the raised area above the bow (where your port and starboard lights are), following the raised curves in the deck at the bow. It is through bolted in place with stainless steel carraige bolts. The lights were relocated above their previous location than mounted to the spurt. There is an off center stainless steel channel sandwiched between the two sections of laminated ply and an anchor roller is mounted at the end of this channel.
I believe I used a 25lb bruce, 60' of chain and 300 feet of rhode (I will verify this next time I am out on the boat). I purchased a cover plate and turned the opened area in the V at the V-berth into rode and chain storage. I afixed a sheet of clear plexiglass chalked in place to the back side of the teak ply. The window that this created in the V-berth has a nautical look and is cool since you can see the chain and rhode when inside the cabin.
I custom made and installed it in one weekend. Besides some off the shelf stuff to put it together it is not something on the market.
I call it a bow spurt because it jets out. It does make anchoring much easier both setting and heaving up. As you can see it hangs way clear of the bow. I love the lines of a Bruce and it looks clean hanging out there.
I extended the bow by about 18-24" with a fiberglass covered 1.5" thick marine plywood. It was cut to fit the raised area above the bow (where your port and starboard lights are), following the raised curves in the deck at the bow. It is through bolted in place with stainless steel carraige bolts. The lights were relocated above their previous location than mounted to the spurt. There is an off center stainless steel channel sandwiched between the two sections of laminated ply and an anchor roller is mounted at the end of this channel.
I believe I used a 25lb bruce, 60' of chain and 300 feet of rhode (I will verify this next time I am out on the boat). I purchased a cover plate and turned the opened area in the V at the V-berth into rode and chain storage. I afixed a sheet of clear plexiglass chalked in place to the back side of the teak ply. The window that this created in the V-berth has a nautical look and is cool since you can see the chain and rhode when inside the cabin.
I custom made and installed it in one weekend. Besides some off the shelf stuff to put it together it is not something on the market.
Attachments
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Evolution Profile.jpg -
Bow spurt.jpg
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Dave Hussey
Member III
That looks like it was quite a project to put together. Thanks for the pictures.
I'd like to see your 'window to the rhode" ...I need to do something to close the hole in the bulkhead...a bronze port light maybe? that way I could open it when the locker needs airing out.
I'd like to see your 'window to the rhode" ...I need to do something to close the hole in the bulkhead...a bronze port light maybe? that way I could open it when the locker needs airing out.
Maine Sail
Member III
Tried all the old "Standards"
Over the years I've owned 3-CQR's, 2-Genuine Bruce's, One Delta, 2- Fortress', 2-Spades (one aluminum & one steel), about six Danforths, 1-Manson Supreme and 1-Rocna.
By a long, long, long shot both the Manson Supreme and the Rocna out perform every one of the other anchors I owned combined hands down no contest. In fact the Rocna is so good I've yet to get it to not set on the first try or to re-set on a wind or tide shift. I've even tried it at a 2:1 for setting and the damn thing still sets! I will however echo the previous post of another fellow Rocna owner that the darn thing brings up haft the bottom and requires cleating it off. I also requires serious forward RPM's & cleating it off to dislodge it from the bottom!
When I first got my Rocna it was still early spring and I had the boating itch. I decided it would be fun to hook it to my car's bumper and see if it could penetrate "weeds" or in reality my lawn! The wife was not happy at all but it dug in in about three feet and stopped my car! When I put the car in neutral the stretch of the rode jerked it back a good ten feet. I then tried a comparison to my 35lb CQR. I basically towed the CQR around the house without so much as a golfers divot in my lawn!!!
If anyone wants a Fortress FX-16, CQR 25 or 35 or a Spade A-80 I still have those availble! I have sold all my other anchors unfortunately the word is out about how bad the CQR is and no one seems to want them!
Oh and my Manson Supreme is currently on loan o another board member who had been using a 22 pound Bruce as a primary on an Ericson 35-3!
Over the years I've owned 3-CQR's, 2-Genuine Bruce's, One Delta, 2- Fortress', 2-Spades (one aluminum & one steel), about six Danforths, 1-Manson Supreme and 1-Rocna.
By a long, long, long shot both the Manson Supreme and the Rocna out perform every one of the other anchors I owned combined hands down no contest. In fact the Rocna is so good I've yet to get it to not set on the first try or to re-set on a wind or tide shift. I've even tried it at a 2:1 for setting and the damn thing still sets! I will however echo the previous post of another fellow Rocna owner that the darn thing brings up haft the bottom and requires cleating it off. I also requires serious forward RPM's & cleating it off to dislodge it from the bottom!
When I first got my Rocna it was still early spring and I had the boating itch. I decided it would be fun to hook it to my car's bumper and see if it could penetrate "weeds" or in reality my lawn! The wife was not happy at all but it dug in in about three feet and stopped my car! When I put the car in neutral the stretch of the rode jerked it back a good ten feet. I then tried a comparison to my 35lb CQR. I basically towed the CQR around the house without so much as a golfers divot in my lawn!!!
If anyone wants a Fortress FX-16, CQR 25 or 35 or a Spade A-80 I still have those availble! I have sold all my other anchors unfortunately the word is out about how bad the CQR is and no one seems to want them!
Oh and my Manson Supreme is currently on loan o another board member who had been using a 22 pound Bruce as a primary on an Ericson 35-3!
1973E29 TUG
Member I
E29 - 35# Cqr
We had a 25# Danforth which we dragged about 60 feet across the Vinoy Basin in St. Petersburg in a strong north-north-easterly breeze. Miraculously didn't touch a thing and didn't end up on a seawall. Shortly after this we purchased a 35# CQR with 30' of heavy chain (I believe in overkill when it comes to an anchor). She hasn't dragged an inch since.
Southwest florida anchorages are all soft sand bottom and are seldom more than 15' to 20' Depth (usually more like 10')
We had a 25# Danforth which we dragged about 60 feet across the Vinoy Basin in St. Petersburg in a strong north-north-easterly breeze. Miraculously didn't touch a thing and didn't end up on a seawall. Shortly after this we purchased a 35# CQR with 30' of heavy chain (I believe in overkill when it comes to an anchor). She hasn't dragged an inch since.
Southwest florida anchorages are all soft sand bottom and are seldom more than 15' to 20' Depth (usually more like 10')
C. Trembanis
Member III
Manson Supreme anchor
Dose anyone have any opinion about the Manson Supreme anchor?
Dose anyone have any opinion about the Manson Supreme anchor?
Maine Sail
Member III
Yes
I actually own a Manson Supreme and it is a tremendous anchor when compared to anything else except the Rocna. I also own and have owed CQR's, Bruce, Delta Fast Set, Fortress, Super Max, Spade and I currently use a Rocna.
My Manson Supreme is currently on loan to Tim R., a forum member here (although I don't think he's actually had a chance to use it yet), as I purchased a Rocna. My Manson never once let me down and it set 100% of the time on the first try except for once when I fouled a lobster trap.
Why did I purchase a Rocna if my Manson was so good? Curiosity mostly. My Rocna has also performed flawlessly and it is clearly a better built piece of equipment. That being said I seriously doubt anyone will ever break a Manson so from that perspective the Rocna is just over built.
If you've never owned a new generation anchor such as a Spade then the Manson will literally blow you away! It sets like you hit a brick wall...
Buy either the Manson or the Rocna and you will NOT be let down. You'll also sleep better at night..
The anchors below are all 35lb models except the Rocna which is 33lbs. (of which the Manson Supreme is very similar). Take a close look at the surface area (read holding power) and the tips cross section (read bottom penetration) and it will become clear why the Rocna and Manson are getting rave reviews!!
Anchor Surface Area Comparison
Anchor Tip Cross Section Comparison
or visit:
My Anchor Photo Galleries
Sorry for the links! I don't know why this particular forum does not allow photo posting.
I actually own a Manson Supreme and it is a tremendous anchor when compared to anything else except the Rocna. I also own and have owed CQR's, Bruce, Delta Fast Set, Fortress, Super Max, Spade and I currently use a Rocna.
My Manson Supreme is currently on loan to Tim R., a forum member here (although I don't think he's actually had a chance to use it yet), as I purchased a Rocna. My Manson never once let me down and it set 100% of the time on the first try except for once when I fouled a lobster trap.
Why did I purchase a Rocna if my Manson was so good? Curiosity mostly. My Rocna has also performed flawlessly and it is clearly a better built piece of equipment. That being said I seriously doubt anyone will ever break a Manson so from that perspective the Rocna is just over built.
If you've never owned a new generation anchor such as a Spade then the Manson will literally blow you away! It sets like you hit a brick wall...
Buy either the Manson or the Rocna and you will NOT be let down. You'll also sleep better at night..
The anchors below are all 35lb models except the Rocna which is 33lbs. (of which the Manson Supreme is very similar). Take a close look at the surface area (read holding power) and the tips cross section (read bottom penetration) and it will become clear why the Rocna and Manson are getting rave reviews!!
Anchor Surface Area Comparison
Anchor Tip Cross Section Comparison
or visit:
My Anchor Photo Galleries
Sorry for the links! I don't know why this particular forum does not allow photo posting.
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Maine Sail
Member III
Why can't
Why can't we link to photos, hosted on our own web site, like we can on the other forums by using the little "yellow mountain" icon..??
Why can't we link to photos, hosted on our own web site, like we can on the other forums by using the little "yellow mountain" icon..??