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Deck Repair, Injectadeck and Options [Master Thread]
- Thread starter wynkoop
- Start date
Christian's point is valid... if you are totally averse to this kind of work, or can't abide the mess, or are only going to keep the boat for a few years, there is nothing to lose and it will be better than it was. But, if long term, it is a half measure and at least SOME moisture will be trapped and it will continue to migrate as a 'cancer' ... as mentioned above.
again...if you use plywood, it is CRITICAL to overdrill the 1/4" bolt hole to 1/2", then excavate around another 1/8 to 1/4, fill with thickened epoxy... then drill for your fasteners.
There are several foam and other cores... Nidacore is a plastic honeycomb material with a thin layer of matt on each side. Excellent stuff... and does not transmit moisture as ply would.
Proviso... you canot mount hardware on top of Nidacore, you will crush it. I have laminated solid pieces of fiberglass where I will be mounting stanchions, cleats etc.
There are several foam and other cores... Nidacore is a plastic honeycomb material with a thin layer of matt on each side. Excellent stuff... and does not transmit moisture as ply would.
Proviso... you canot mount hardware on top of Nidacore, you will crush it. I have laminated solid pieces of fiberglass where I will be mounting stanchions, cleats etc.
Earlier today I called the guy who posted his phone number in the Searay forum I linked to above. He just called me back. He did the foredeck of his large Searay with it two years ago. He said it was rock hard in 30 min and has stayed that way ever since. He said when it was injected it forced excess water out of the other holes. According to the web site the stuff needs h2o to start the reaction.
He used the leftover injectadeck to fix some soft spots in the spars of a wooden spared plane and the plane is still going strong and passes annual. He has also used it in land vehicles that had cored fiberglass that has become a problem. He says it just works.
The estimate he had gotten to fix his Searay was $30K. The injectadeck was $300.
So.......I think my next project will be to injectadeck Silver Maiden. If it does not work I can always build a tent over her and preform invasive surgery.
If it is snake oil I will report that. If it works. I will also report that.
He used the leftover injectadeck to fix some soft spots in the spars of a wooden spared plane and the plane is still going strong and passes annual. He has also used it in land vehicles that had cored fiberglass that has become a problem. He says it just works.
The estimate he had gotten to fix his Searay was $30K. The injectadeck was $300.
So.......I think my next project will be to injectadeck Silver Maiden. If it does not work I can always build a tent over her and preform invasive surgery.
If it is snake oil I will report that. If it works. I will also report that.
tenders
Innocent Bystander
No, I don’t reuse the old skin. By the time you’ve noticed that the core has failed, the skin has been flexed so many times that it has no strength left. I cut it out as neatly as possible to use as a pattern for a new skin of nice, stiff 3/16” G10, which is better in every way than the original skin except cost.
Expanding foam as a class of stuff has remarkable properties--and not just for sealing mouse holes under the refrigerator. It was six years ago I made a floatation plug for my pram. I approached the expanding foam project with trepidation, was satisfied with the result. That ridiculous plug is still behind my garage, semi-exposed to weather. It remains hard as a rock and I;ve never had the heart to saw it up. Not that this has anything to do with Injectadeck, but it amuses me to remember....(excerpt from from a blog entry)
More flotation was definitely needed for the dinghy's lifeboat role. It came in two cans--as two-part, 2-ounce expanding foam from U.S. Composites, at about $85 the gallon.
Although the chemical reaction causes heat, it's not all that much. So I just lined the forward well of the dink with cardboard, taped black plastic trash bags to contain the expansion in the necessary shape, mixed the components for the recommended 15 seconds, poured like it was nitroglycerin and ran behind the blast wall.
For the foam to rise the ambient temperature needs to be 70F, and 80F is better. Every ten degrees below 80 means 20 percent less expansion. I did the fill in three pours, since it is difficult to calculate the result. Urged by a heat gun, the foam rose in minutes and was hard and smooth in half an hour. When done in close sequence, each new layer adheres to the old. In three hours out popped a perfectly sized plug of foam that looks like it will support 200 or 300 pounds. Great fun.
I screwed a piece of 3/8 inch plywood over it to hold it firmly down. Added weight, about 8 pounds. Some lines looped around the gunnels give a lifeboat-like appearance and place to clip on a safety harness.
More flotation was definitely needed for the dinghy's lifeboat role. It came in two cans--as two-part, 2-ounce expanding foam from U.S. Composites, at about $85 the gallon.
Although the chemical reaction causes heat, it's not all that much. So I just lined the forward well of the dink with cardboard, taped black plastic trash bags to contain the expansion in the necessary shape, mixed the components for the recommended 15 seconds, poured like it was nitroglycerin and ran behind the blast wall.
For the foam to rise the ambient temperature needs to be 70F, and 80F is better. Every ten degrees below 80 means 20 percent less expansion. I did the fill in three pours, since it is difficult to calculate the result. Urged by a heat gun, the foam rose in minutes and was hard and smooth in half an hour. When done in close sequence, each new layer adheres to the old. In three hours out popped a perfectly sized plug of foam that looks like it will support 200 or 300 pounds. Great fun.
I screwed a piece of 3/8 inch plywood over it to hold it firmly down. Added weight, about 8 pounds. Some lines looped around the gunnels give a lifeboat-like appearance and place to clip on a safety harness.
1911tex
Sustaining Member
I am going to give injectadeck a try...I have a 12"x9" mild soft spot just forward and starboard of the forward dorade/vents. Problem was leaky dorade which has been sealed up with a double dose of 2part epoxy. Tired of mulling over that soft spot, and telling everyone to step over it...now is the time! Ordered the minimum package (2 tubes) 12# viscosity. Once done, will report back...I am going to save the non-skid area above the soft spot, just going to drill 4 holes and squirt. Maybe it won't look like major surgery. Will report results once product is received and injected. I am sure with 100 degree Texas heat that stuff will rise in 15 seconds of shooting....I will do it early 80 degree morning. ANY SUGGESTIONS OF WHAT TO SEAL/MASK/BLEND THE SQUIRT HOLES WITH?
Since my non-skid is light blue no matter what I do to cover the holes I am either doing a custom mix to try to match color, or I have to paint the deck. Since I already have painting on my list that is what I will do after I match the pattern. Probably not injecting my deck for several weeks. Have a couple of other things to do first.
My solution to holes in non-skid is to countersink in a large flathead stainless screw. Which of course does nothing.
The effect is that "something" is mounted under there, it looks "important," and the eye expects to see stainless fasteners on a boat.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
The effect is that "something" is mounted under there, it looks "important," and the eye expects to see stainless fasteners on a boat.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
1911tex
Sustaining Member
Ok tried Injectadeck yesterday on a 12x9" very soft spot as mentioned 4 posts above. Actually I drilled beyond this measurement to 16x16". I did 1-1/2 clicks of the juice in each of 10, 1/4" holes and the amount of dark bubbly nasty stuff that came out was amazing...I guess that was a mix of old water and rotten balsa. After a couple of minutes, the crud ceased and white foam balls appeared. I wanted to do this process without removing the original deck. This photo is 10 minutes after application, balls removed and the residue was not cleaned up quickly enough as I was doing this alone without a backup to wipe up, so it will require a repaint of this non skid deck...which is a whole lot better than the alternative of removing a section of deck. According to the instructions, I will drill a divot in each hole and fill with Marine-tex, then repaint (which was needed on all the upper fore deck non-skid area anyway). There was slight bulging along one corner and according to instructions, after 30 minutes it was ok to step and squash it and it was corrected. The salon under deck showed no after effects. Per instructions after one hour I stepped on the area and it was rock hard! Good stuff!
Edit: I used 2/3 of a single double cartridge of Injectadeck in this process. Yes recommended; however you need a backup person to quickly wipe up the residue!
Edit: I used 2/3 of a single double cartridge of Injectadeck in this process. Yes recommended; however you need a backup person to quickly wipe up the residue!
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1911tex
Sustaining Member
Negative......immediately after application of product to each hole, the nasty dark crud came pouring out down the sloping deck (I could not keep up with paper towels as you can see from the residue...you have to keep your gloved finger over the end of the applicator tube between hole squirts (again per instructions) while releasing thumb lever pressure on the gun...and be quick to the next hole before the product in the tube begins to solidify), some holes only a few seconds to clear crud with foam balls, some holes took a minute or two to clear before the foam balls appeared. 2 holes belched crud for almost 5 minutes before the ball appeared! With almost 100 degree sun beating down on the deck for a week, I was amazed the amount of moisture that belched out. I guess it depended upon how much moisture there was below each drilled hole. 1-1/2 clicks may have been too much for some holes as the balls were large baseball size...others, golf ball size. All pure white.
NOTE: I drilled no further that the top thin layer of the deck...the drill bit tells you when you hit the pocket..NO FURTHER!
1911tex
Sustaining Member
I did not use a drill stop...it is obviously very clear when you exit the thin top deck layer into the balsa pocket...no problem there what so ever.
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I just finished "epoxy potting" about 100 holes in our deck. It turns out that a small hex key with the short ended shortened up to about 3/8" is perfect to chuck up and grind out the balsa from around the new half inch hole drilled in the top. For a drill stop I used a piece of one inch dowling, drill pressed for my half inch bit. Works perfect. Using several stops of differing length, I could set depth perfect for a square "Forstner" style flat end bit to go right to the inside glass layer and no further.
By the way, one little part of the Injectadeck site verbiage does concern me... where they boast that their fix will fool a moisture meter. If true, this is concerning.
I do still think this is a 'quick fix' and will still leave moisture on the outer edges past the last holes.... maybe not in voids which the foam will consume or force out, but definitely in wet but solid core.
However- it is quick and easy and not nearly as messy (if you have enough paper towels), and the deck will for sure be a whole lot better than it was.
However- it is quick and easy and not nearly as messy (if you have enough paper towels), and the deck will for sure be a whole lot better than it was.