E-27 Headsail selection

[obiwanrazzy]

Well, I've been out a few times on Stardust this winter and I'm starting to notice that my original (I think) sail selection is a little lacking. I've a storm sail and a ~120% "lapper". In light air, the lapper seems to be both not enough area and too heavy a cloth (6.5 oz, maybe?), especially on a run.

I'm wondering what you other 27s out there have in a headsail selection? I'm thinking of investing in a larger genoa for light air. Maybe even a 150% mylar/poly laminate? I also think I've changed my mind from my previous plan to put in a roller furling. Changing sails is not so bad (even single handed), and I like the idea of having an appropriate selection for the conditions. Anyway, I've a jar full of pennies, so offer me your 2 cents worth.

Thanks... Oh, and also any recommendations on sail lofts in the NW? Any problems with the big outfits like North or UK?

 

[exoduse35]

Hank on sails rock! the only problem with them is you can need so many. I have a 80 110, 130, heavy 150 and light 150. I have used them all, and find each to work well under "CERTAIN " conditions. Here in the bay area if you sail all year you will see all those certain conditions. The p/o was a racer, so the sails came with, but If I were buying I would stick with Dacron and spend more on selection. It isn't about the optimal race performance, so even good used will do. It is about extending the fun, so the more conditions you are prepared for the longer the fun will last. Choose by what you wish you had more of. If you are encountering winds too heavy for what you have add a spot in the sail locker for a smaller sail, it will extend the winds you are comfortable in that much more, then someday you will find yourself making room for an even smaller one. the same goes for bigger & bigger. You might go to a 150 for light air but don't think it is a replacement just an addition. That is my .02 rant hope it helps put it into perspective and makes your next decision easier.

 

[obiwanrazzy]

Agreed. So far I've found use for that storm sail (didn't quite "need" it, but it made the family comfortable on that breezy day), and I've had days that the heavy 120 was great as well. Both sails, while old, are still in fine condition, so I'm definately not looking to replace them.. The gap right now really seems to be light air days. I'd really rather not use that heaviest of sails, the Atomic 4.

By the way, I should have mentioned that I'm primarily planning on cruising and day sails. But who knows, racing might be something I'll consider some day in the future.. I do like to go fast when I can either way.

 

[Loren Beach]

Uk

I have only good experiences with UKSails NW for the last 20 years. If you talk to loft manager Tim Knight, say hi for me.
(I have no financial interest, just a very occasional customer)

I spoke to Tim recently at the Seattle show and when I mentioned that I was casually thinking about another sail sometime, he told me to quit trying to spend money and spend more time sailing. For years now he has been talking me out of sails and high-$$ technology that I do not really need.
Quite an effective "sales technique" in this over-hyped day and age!


Loren in PDX

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I know that FX sails are not the big guy and you have to measure your boat for the sail and they have you ship your old sails (at their expense) in for them to measure to cross check your measurements. Bill James has been very honest he doesn’t sell you things you don’t need.

The sails are well made and perform well at a fair price. It is your choice what you spend and where but make an informed decision. Look at FX and then make your choice.

 

[obiwanrazzy]

I'll probably run a quote at a few of these lofts and then compare.

I definately am interested in the "performance cruising" types of construction (radial or "tape-drive" in the case of UK). Do any of you have these types of sails in your inventory? Do you all think ~150% would be a good light air size (noting that we often have light wind in the Puget Sound)?

 

[Loren Beach]

Sail Power is always a Popular subject on this site, as we all need a new sail now and then...
I wonder if you saw this prior E-27 thread when you did a search on the subject:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=1806&referrerid=28

Cheers,
Loren

 

[Jeff Asbury]

I use a 140 furling on my E-27

I use a 140 that just about comes to the traveler (mid boom). I do have the roller furling with and I prefer not to use hank ons because I do mostly coastal sailing, lots of swells.

For the Sound I am sure I would be happy with hank ons. When I was getting advice down here for So Cal sailing, most recommended a 135 for versatility, but I like the 140 for the light air days. These E-27's are heavy boats for the size. I think my handicap is 240. I like the sail space of the 140.

 

[exoduse35]

You are likely to be happy with a 140 or 150 either one. There is a guy from your area offering his used 170 (sorry its for a 35-2) It is likely that the question is more accurately how many sails do you want to carry and how often are you willing to go up front and change them. From there it is simply a matter of finding a good spread between them. If you want to carry few and change seldom, then a spread of 30% or even 40% is justifiable at the cost of speed and comfort. If you have room and don't mind the work then you will be happier with a 20% spread. and if you cant stand being passed then 10% is the only solution. Evaluate yourself, then relax because any choice will be right and wrong depending on the day!

 

[obiwanrazzy]

Well there ya go!

Thanks, Loren, for the link to that thread. I actually didn't come up with that one when I searched (must be the nut attached to the keyboard ). Lots of good discussion on the different lofts.

Also thanks exodus and Jeff. That's just the info I was after. What kind of spread between sizes and how big to go... Now, once Uncle Sam gets around to sending that check, I'll have to give a couple lofts a ring.

 

[Annapolis E-27]

Matthew,

You might want to consider searching places like Bacon's in Annapolis. They carry hundreds of "used" sails at a more resonable price that new loft sails. Many of these have only been used a season or two as the racers around here tend to replace thier sails frequently and their "used" sails still have years left in them and they leave money in your wallet.

 

[Bill Sanborn]

Poor Mans Roller Furling

Years ago I used a hanked-on 100% genoa with a reef in it that took it down to 85% or so as my heavy weather sail on my E29.

This is a very old solution. I haven't seen any mention of reefable head sails for many years. Sailmakers all think this is an abomination but they have an obvious conflict of interest. I learned of it in an old article by the Pardeys.

The reef looks pretty much like a mainsail reef. New tack and clue grommets and a line of reef points. Fairly easy to use, you can tie on the new sheet while still using the sail. When reefing: connect new sheet, ease sheet & halyard, connect new tack, tighten halyard, tighten new sheet. After things settle down tie up the bunt. I had a second sheet lead for the new sheet that was already in the proper location for trim.

A deep reefed main and genoa reefed to 85% was the smallest sail combination I ever needed here on Puget Sound. I still have an unused storm jib.

A 140 reefable to 120 and a 100 reefable to 85 covers a huge range of wind conditions with only 2 headsails.

 

[sleather]

100%-

Bill, And here I thought I was the only "wayward" head-sail reefing sailor.
I had North make me up a 100% low-clewed blade a few years back and did the same thing, reef @ 85%. The reefed clew is high-cut and reefing the jib is easier and safer than having to do a complete sail change. I used a "snap-shackle" for the small sail sheets as there is no contact w/ anything to accidently open the shackle.

 

[Kevin Johnston]

Sails

Matt,
I have a 85 storm blade, 120 Lapper, 135 (which I really use the most), 150, a 170, and a spinnaker. Most of my inventory is North and I have always had luck with North Sails in Seattle.

You will be happy staying with hank on. If you don't have an autohelm, sure makes going fore while soloing or shorthanded much easier. I was in Everett last Thursday and Friday but my schedule and carpooling, unexpectedly did not allow for me to head out after I was done teaching 8 hours each day at Lyons Park there in Everett. Maybe next time!
KJ

 

[obiwanrazzy]

Reefer madness!

I think I've run across reefable headsails on a website or two and kinda wondered how it worked.. That might not be too bad an idea for my old lapper. If its got enough life in it to justify some repairs, maybe I'll have a reef put in too.

Kevin,

Bummer that we couldn't get together, but I know how it goes. When I travel for work, I almost never have any spare time! I'm sure we'll run into you all sometime this summer when the cruising season gets going!

So, you use the 135 the most, eh? About what wind speed range does that work for you? I was thinking of going a little bigger for my next one 140 to 150.. Do you think that would be too much sail for most conditions or would it work for our lighter days here?

 

[Kevin Johnston]

Sail choice

Matt,
I use the 150 or 170 mostly on the bay. But, use the 135 on reachs crossing the Straits. In lighter air it close hauls really nice. You have less wind relatively speaking and are closer to safety, so maybe the 150 is the way to go. You could try any of my collection out to see what works best for you. The 135 has some really great utility for most of the conditions I see up on the Olympic Pennizula.
KJ

 

[dc27]

i have a 135 furling jib on my E27 in the central sound, and found myself underpowered most days last summer and fall. in retrospect, i think i would have gone a little bigger. i've only really been kicked around with the 135 once, but that's because i ignored an ugly forecast and didn't reef before i set out.

 

[obiwanrazzy]

UK quote

Well, I finally got around to measuring and faxing off for a quote from UK. This is what they came up with.

All purpose Tape Drive Silver 154% Genoa (sail #s, speed stripes, telltale window, genoa turtle), 293 sq ft: $2509 (15% winter discount puts it at $2132)

All purpose 154% cross-cut dacron genoa (#s, stripes, telltale window) 5.9oz, 293 sq ft: $2018 (- 15% is $1715)

Now, I was expecting more than the mail order (Cruise direct tri-radial Norlam 150% is about $1200 or $1500 depending on the weight), but this did suprise me a bit. I know there's probably a big difference in these two sails, but that seems like a jump. I guess I'm wondering if this seems reasonable to you all or not, this being my first time going thru the process of bidding a sail...

I definately do want to get a good technical sail that will stand up well, and I think the tape drive sounds like a good bet. Just wondering if it's worth the investment.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Not a big fan of UK's tape drive myself. Having seen how they actually make the sail and looking at how many of them have delam issues I would avoid it but thats just my opinion. Seth can chime in here on different materials but if you are looking to go up in performance and quality from Dacron I would look at either contender Maxx material or talk to Quantum about their cruising laminate CXT. I have a main and rf genoa on my 38 made from the CXT material and it is holding up very well with cruising and some racing. 3 years on the main and 2 on the genny so far. That being said the price jump from dacron will be appreciable. You may find for your sailing you are fine with a good dacron sail. Most all of the major players (UK, North, Quantum) offer several grades of dacron. You might want to look at getting a premium dacron instead of laminate.