E-38 Mast Crane

[Ericsean]

Has anyone installed a spinnaker mast crane on a E-38 with the "wing" halyard configuration?

I know its supposed to work, but I'm getting tired of seeing my crew hanging on the chute trying to drop, especially after we've had to jybe onto the other tack befor the leeward mark.

Would still like double halyards for Port & Straboard, but if they slide on a bail, I think the angle will be better for dropping.

 

[u079721]

This - like far too many other things - was always on my to-do list, but I never got around to it, as I just didn't use the spinnaker that much. But I did contact http://www.riggingonly.com/ and they had a plate available with an overhanging bail that could be used to retrofit a spinnaker bail to your masthead. You would have to remove everything from the top surface of the mast, fasten the plate to the top with machine screws (lots of them I would think) and them reattach all the gear to the top of the plate. This wouldn't be that hard with the mast down, but would be one hell of a project if you didn't want to pull the stick. Also, if you have a masthead wind instrument whose cable does not detach at that end, you might have to remove the whole cable run and re-thread the cable through a hole in the new plate. All of which helps explain why I never pursued that option, even though I pulled our stick every fall.

 

[e38 owner]

A thought

We used to have that problem quite a bit.
More recently when bouy racing we normally set up for starboard pole raise and do a pole down chute down for the drop with a drop onto the port side into a custom bag in the front hatch. Windard or leward drop depending on the tack into the mark. It works most of the time. Thus if you raise and lower on the same side you are ready to go back up. The sheets are all run and we don't get the binding on the top of the mast. Also make sure you don't pull the shackel up into the mast that cause most of the trouble at the top.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Halyard Stop Balls will prevent the splice or shackle from jamming. Was looking for a picture but these a plastic balls that have a hole in them. They slide down the to shackle and prevent the halyard from jamming.

 

[Ericsean]

Aysm.

Hey Ted, I agree Ineed to put ball stoppers on my halyards. I need to find a split one so I can install w/o taking halyards off.

On another note, that Asym of yours looks gorgeous that I saw on a different thread. Do you know the dimensions, I'm looking at some used ones & would like it to be close to yours.

 

[Seth]

Why a crane?

The 38 has (or should have) a center halyard (for genoas and staysails), and 2 wing (or "universal")halyard sheaves which are designed for any headsail or spinnaker or anything else you want to fly from the masthead. There is a chafe bail up there, and it works fine..

The design of this masthead arrangement was specifically to avoid needing a crane like this, so what are the reasons you want to add weight and windage to the mast and let's help figure them out the right way...

Cheers,
S

 

[Loren Beach]

Speaking of the Bail

Some years ago when we had the spar down for the great re-rig...
I had that bail removed and polished up. It was scarred up from years of wire halyard abrasion and we were also changing over to line halyards anyway.
The old ss machine screws were really wedded to the aluminum mast and it would have been near impossible to exert enough torque on them from a perch on a bosun's chair. With a new mirror polish they are now about as low on friction as is possible without completely modifying each vertical component to put a roller on it...


Best,
LB

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Kevin I do not know the dimensions on the sail, but I bet if you contact Tad Hutchins at Quantum sails in annapolis he would be able to tell you.

410-268-1161

thutchins@quantumsails.com

 

[u079721]

The 38 has (or should have) a center halyard (for genoas and staysails), and 2 wing (or "universal")halyard sheaves which are designed for any headsail or spinnaker or anything else you want to fly from the masthead. There is a chafe bail up there, and it works fine..

The design of this masthead arrangement was specifically to avoid needing a crane like this, so what are the reasons you want to add weight and windage to the mast and let's help figure them out the right way...

Cheers,
S

OK, really stupid question here - from someone who hasn't used spinnakers much - but how would you jibe a cruising chute using the port or starboard wing halyard? Wouldn't the halyard have to chafe on one of tacks? Also, I never had any confidence with this setup that a significant sideways load on the halyards wouldn't cause them to jump the sheave and possibly get stuck, in spite of the bail.

 

[Seth]

wings and things

The wing halyards are higher than the center hayard sheave,and actually should be just above the HS attachment IIRC. When you are flying a kite, the halyard should be clear (above) of the HS and not a problem when you gybe. This is exactly the same setup as almost every boat these days with a tri-halyard setup. Of course, if you drop the kite when on the opposite board from when you hoisted, the halyard will need to be run around the HS to be clear for use again with a headsail...
Hope that makes sense
Cheers
S

 

[Ericsean]

Mast Crane

Hey Seth, I read your replyand it all makes sense but hoisting and dropping are ridiculously hard on my boat. I can't help but believe that a crane w/blocks would reduce friction and make the process easier. My 6'5 250lb foredeck man has been screaming for a crane for 2 years!

Doesn't help that we do a lot of night racing, and I think having the halyard out on a crane would help us see that it is run fairly, and not inside the forestay.

I have to drop the mast in spring to re-rig standing wires (Ithink original from 1980), so sheaves will be replaced as well. Could the old wire/rope sheaves cause this much trouble with my all rope halyards?

 

[Seth]

If you hear hoofbeats....

Look for horses. The problem you are having has nothing whatsoever to do with a crane or lack thereof.

A problem of this magnitude is either from frozen or damaged sheaves, worn or wrong halyard sizes, or having the halyards crossed inside the mast-or a combination of these things. Yes-the sheaves could be a major part of the problem.

Put differently, if all of this is in good condition, and the chafe bars around the halyard sheaves are in good condition (you can take it down and have it re-done at any machine shop if not), the halyards will go up and down just fine. Again-Cranes are something from the past, and are not really done on any modern racing boats-nor have they for many years.

A crane will definitely not fix the problems you are having. The spinnaker halyards should never be under the forestay unless you are doing something wrong.

Of course you can do it if you like, but all it will do is add windage and weight.

Hope this helps,

S

 

[Ericsean]

Mast Crane

I hear you loud & clear. Actually wanted to raise a question, seems like my spin halyards twist quite a bit, as opposed to my jib and main halyards which go up & down regularly w/o twisting. Guessing this is caused by bad/frozen sheaves?

PS, I'm gonna have to have my Fordeck guy read this link!

 

[Seth]

Something's up, up there!

Well, something is certainly not right up there. Could be the halyards themselves, or the sheaves-and it is very possible they are twisted INSIDE the mast. You might want to snug up the main and genoa halyards, and pull out the wing halyards entirely. Drop a messenger line with a washer or nut on the end for each one (maybe even heel the boat over to std as you drop the stb messenger, and to port for the port one), making sure they come straight down. You can retrieve the messenger at the hayard exits with a coat hanger, and pull the halyards back through. At least you can then be sure they are not twisted inside...

Good luck!

S

 

[Ericsean]

Halyard

Already done on the starboard side, more twisting on port so I'll try it.

Here's my trick, bicycle chain on end of cordage, retrieved thru the hole with a magnet.

 

[Seth]

Works for me

Good luck. Work the problem-the design will be OK.

Cheers,

 

[u079721]

Wing halyard for the jib

Slightly off topic, but while we are talking about the masthead on the 38, I thought I would mention what I did to avoid halyard wrap.

The PO had destroyed two jib halyards with halyard wrap on the boat, so I knew I had to do something like mount a halyard retainer. But going up the mast one day I noticed that if I used one of the upper wing halyards to hoist the upper swivel on the forestay, then the angle of the pull would rule out the possibility of any wraps around the foil. So I started using the port wing halyard for the genny, and never again had a problem with wrap.

That only left me one wing halyard to fly a chute, but since we don't race that really wasn't an issue.