E27: furling jib or not?

[dc27]

not to dig up a thread long buried, but having gotten my new mainsail out of the way (Doyle, should arrive any day), i have to make a decision on roller furling. yes, i'm going with Harken, but the question now is which size. the specs say the E27 would want the Unit 0 system (based on boat length of less than 30 feet, and my forestay is 3/16 inch), but the guy at the shop i'll be buying from suggested that i move up a size to the Unit 1. something about being stronger, handling larger sails, i can't remember exactly what he said.

question: is there any point to "overbuilding," getting a heavier headstay made (1/4 inch) and going with a furling system the next size up? obviously i don't want to spend the extra money...unless there's a good reason to do so. i'm planning to buy one tomorrow if you all can help me decide.

advice? counsel? comments? (thanks, as always)

 

[Loren Beach]

Regarding the question about "over sizing" I am minded of the advice from Brion Toss' excellent book. He advises sailors to put on the right size, and never get into the mind-set that "more must be somehow better."

Your whole rig works as an assembly of pieces to transfer loads into and out of the hull structure. Unless you have a NA re-calculating and finding that the factory wire sizes were too small (or large...) , there is NO reason to change those specs.

As to the furler, go with the size that suits the sail plan and boat, per Harken. After all, Harken is one of the best companies in the industry and one that probably spends more on R&D than several the other big names combined.

If you sail in a mainly light-air area, you are quite likely going to consider a 135% that you can roll in for windier afternoons. If you were sailing in an area with stronger winds, like SF Bay, you might also add a 105% that would roll down to a 90...
(And if racing, you would perhaps be looking at a light 150)


If you do not have Mr. Toss' great book, do consider getting and reading through a copy. It's a font of information, IMO.

Good luck, and hope to meet you at the Rendezvous,

Loren in PDX

 

[Frank Langer]

I agree with Loren-- for example, to achieve the right tension on a 1/4" headstay will require more tension than on your current 3/16", which will have a different impact on the bow/deck structure. An engineer or rigger can likely calculate this more accurately than I can, but Loren is right that it's usually best to have the boat operating as a coordinated structure, rather than strengthening one element without knowing the impact on the others.

As well, the Unit 0 is plenty strong enough, as it is built for boats up to 30', and yours is only 27' so you already have some additional safety factor built in.

Frank

 

[dc27]

thanks to both Frank and Loren for their sage advice, which i will heed. the question has been bugging me for a week now, haven't had time to post a query though. i appreciate the quick and thoughtful responses!

i was surprised that while the E27 manual specs say the stays are all 5/32, when i checked mine with a gauge they all turned out to be 3/16. i guess they were upgraded at some point. i'm also surprised that the dealer and two other people have told me, "over size." but the arguments against it seem persuasive.

 

[dc27]

also, Loren correctly intuits that i'm going to order a 135 for general purpose use around Puget Sound. presumably that will suit both vessel and furling system well.

 

[Seth]

Late to the party

I am on the road in Socal, but:
Sometimes, when your boat is "on the edge" in terms of size, HS dia., etc., it is a good idea to err on the stronger side, but while I have to check the specs, the 27 and it's HS are well within the suggested size range for the Unit 0. The HS is strong enough to have proven itself over many years, so I think you will get no benefit from upsizing..
S

Loren and Frank have filled in the blanks-a 135% is ideal for Puget Sound-big enough to drive the boat in light-med air, and stout enough to hold a reasonable shape when partialy furled in bigger breeze. For very light days, eventually you can add a cruising spinnaker-which will sail at angles from a very close reach in light air-down to a broad reach as needed.

Cheers!
S

 

[Emerald]

If you are still looking at furlers, check out the Hood Seafurl 5. Defender has a great price on them:

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|77896|299747&id=136645

I feel like this is a great unit that is often over looked due to the prevelance of some of the other names (not that they aren't great furlers also). It doesn't require any modifications to your headstay, and it also boasts a lifetime warranty.

Here's a link to Hood's page on them:

http://www.pompanette.com/pompweb.n...36da53db782b8b5c852567c9006a753f?OpenDocument

No affiliation, just really really love the critter

.

 

[Guy Stevens]

On furlers:

Today I would go with a NEW Harken Mark iv, ( The mark iv's solved the problems that these units have had since day 1, and are indeed finally a great furler), indeed I have sold several of these and installed them for clients here in the area.

Schaefer is a great unit also.

Profurl used to be on my list as a good unit, below Schafer, but lately too many screw ups, and the fact that if you are on this side of the pond YOU CAN NO LONGER GET REPLACEMENT PARTS OF ANY SORT. Yes you read that right.

Hood is old tech, and not worth the cost savings in my book.

For smaller lighter used boats, the furlex by selden has a good point to it. It comes ready to put up out of the box, new forestay, and even the blocks to lead the furling line aft. However I would never take one out on the ocean, too much plastic in the wrong places for my taste.

There you have my opinion.

Guy

 

[Frank Langer]

Guy,
Can you elaborate a bit on what you are referring to in your comment that Harken has finally solved the problem that they have had since early models. I have a Harken Mark II (not sure what year it was installed) on my E30+, and haven't had any problem with it so far, but am wondering what problems I might expect. As well, is there any "fix" for the problem with the earlier model?
I appreciate any further advice you can provide about this.
Frank.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Stainless Steel and Aluminum don't mix

The issue is a standard one, they had a stainless steel stay, and the bearing link tubes for the roller furling were aluminum, eventually in a hot salty environment they would begin to make the worlds worst screeching noises, and then eventually the link tubes would lock to the stay, unlay the wire, and the whole thing would come to deck.... Now don't panic yet, most of the people that ended up with unlaid wire ignored what can only be described as a horrid noise, and then generally put the furling line on a winch and kept at it when it still didn't move easily.

The mark iv's have a great plastic bearing surface between the aluminum link tubes, and the stay. Just like profurl, schaefer, and furlex.

Harkens top and bottom bearing system has always been superior, now that they have done this, I think that they are every bit as good as the Schaefer, but at less $$$.

RULE of furling. IF IT DOES NOT TURN, it is BROKEN and needs repair. It does not need to be put on a winch..... Geese.....


G