E38 main measurements

[stbdtack]

Curious if any of you 38 guys know your main dimensions. Specifically the mid and upper girth measures. Ted, I read before your new main had maximum roach and I'm curious if at the max, the sail touches the backstay, and did you keep the max E (14')? PHRF says max mid girth is 9.1 ft and max upper is 5.32 ft.

Thanks in advance

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I need to contact Quantum to get the girth numbers, but heres what I do have: P= 43.25' E= 14' Sail area 378.44 SQFT. I know the original sail they were quoting me that did not max out the roach was the same P and E but area was 360.27 SQFT. One other consideration is that knowing how screwy PHRF is I wonder if max roach on the Chesapeake is the same a west coast? BTW whats your rating? 114 I believe is base but I will probably take a RF credit which I think is 6 seconds here.

 

[stbdtack]

Thanks Ted. The base here is 114 also but I think I remember seeing 109 somewhere. I have to get a new cert for folding prop and RF in socal.

I think the PHRF sail rules are the same, .65xE for the mid and .38xE for the upper girth. I curious to know what yours measures to get 378sqft.

Does it touch the backstay??

BTW, i keep seeing lewmar racing 60s on ebay....no triple/becket though

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Yeah I will email my quantum guy and get the girth numbers. I keep my eye on ebay for the blocks but based on the load recommendations for harken I think I am going to use Lewmar racing 80's. Harken says I should have a SWL of 2500 on the singles and the HL 60s are I think 1700. Either way I don't think I am going to get this boom done cheap. At least I picked up the rigid vang for $200. Hell thats cheaper than the blocks would be to get the purchase up... Its been cold as hell this week so I have been just working on my varnishing in the garage huddling around the kerosene heater:headb:

 

[stbdtack]

backstay

hey Ted ,
does your main touch the backstay?

mmmmmmm, varnish and kerosene fumes........

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Main just clears the backstay. Was all over my topping lift but hopefully I am ending that with the new vang. Fortunately the kerosene heater doesn't stink too bad. Now if I could get the dust levels a little lower in the garage I would be happier.

 

[Seth]

Love that technical talk

That was cool to read!! For sure, if the sail is built to max phrf girths, it will overlap the backstay, and almost as surely, Ted's new main is not quite maxed out. I am 99% that the max girth percentages of E are nearly the same everywhere-certainly not significantly different. The were originally the IOR max girths.., and in any case with a sail with such a high aspec ratio, it would overlap the BS if FULL FULL size.

This is not a problem at all in terms of chafe (despite the fears of many), and only in very light air does it hang up during a tack or gybe.

One would assume that anyone ordering a max girth main also has a hydraulic BS-the point being that in these conditions, if it does hang up, you will have the BS so loose that you can usually just give the BS a firm shake and the leech will pop through. It is at most a minor inconvenience, and IMHO, more than offset by the sail area gains.

Having said all that, the 38 is powerful enough that unless I was in a mostly light air region (Ted), I might back off just a bit on the girths, since for upwind sailing the advantage goes away by the time you have about 10 knots of wind-more breeze downwind before the edge goes away, but you get the point-the 38 carries a lot of sail. In light air though, the max sail will be noticeably faster and higher.

Ka Ching!
S

 

[Seth]

Figuring girths

BTW-Just wanted to be sure you all caught Ben's info on girths (roach) of the mainsails.

PHRF allows a maximum of .38 X E for the upper girth(measured at 25% of the luff down from the head of the sail, by pulling the head of the main down to this point, and then measure across on a right angle to the luff out to the leech, and this is your UPPER girth). and .65 x E for the lower girth, which is done the same way. This should be on the PHRF site.

Sails that are "max" according to this will not incur any rating penalties in PHRF, and on most boats this will overlap the backstay to varying degrees.

Usually we think of roaches in relation to max girth, i.e. "80% of max"-which is good for a basic cruiser who does not want the sail touching the backstay, or 90% for a more performance type of sail, etc. Get it?

Good!

S

 

[stbdtack]

girth measures

Hey Ted,
did you ever get your mainsail girth measurements from Quantum? Hows the vang project going?

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Sailmaker has been out of town, but I expect to hear back soon, will advise. Vang project is coming along great. I picked up the rigid vang by Offshore Spars from my rigging shop buddy for $200! It is the right length and I think a little oversized given that it has 5/8" pins and most specs for our boat show models with 1/2" pin. I'll post a picture soon. It has 6:1 external purchase and looking closer looks like at least 2:1 internal. I am going to take it apart to clean everything and lube. Am looking at some lewmar racing 80's on ebay for the mainsheet. Got new boom sheaves for a sixpack from my rigging buddy. Got my new main halyard, mainsheet, and traveler lines spliced up for an 18 pack too! I'm planning on hauling in April to do the bottom, thinking of spraying Petit Vivid in white and polishing to 400. Will also get the maxprop on then. Rigging shop is going to help me with the hydralic backstay and replacing the masthead sheaves with bearings. Its funny how once I started looking at the mainsheet I discovered my boat was a house of friction. There are no bearing blocks anywhere on the boat. Everything from the masthead sheaves, mast base block, deck organizers, sheet blocks etc. The Harken traveler is the exception. My other big project has been re routing the hoses and wiring in the strbd cockpit locker. That has turned into a much bigger job. I am insulating the hot water hoses and exhaust line coming through there to try and keep the heat down. Also plan to work on the engine compartment insulation, but that is looking like a PITA with the engine in place.

 

[stbdtack]

Lucky you , I wish i could trade beer for stuff.
I think I became obsessed with getting BBs in all the sheaves, but it really does make a difference. Everything is a lot less work.
The lewmar 80s are really nice. I had a double with a becket on the traveller before I changed to the triple/becket Harken. They look like higher quality than the Harken stuff.
I like your idea of using a messenger on the RF halyard. If I hadnt gotten it so cheap, I would be really bummed about my pile of unused Vectran that piles on the coachroof for the RF jib halyard.

I just put new sound insulation in my engine compartment. I think our layouts are different but I too only had a few inches clearance on the sides of my engine. I used the Glacier Bay Ultra db insulation mainly because I got a smokin deal at the last boatshow. It has a peel off backing and I'm usually skeptical about self stick stuff in an engine room, but it has stayed put with no mechanical fasteners, even on the overhead panels. It wasnt too bad to install. I made templates from poster board and then cut the stuff with a razor knife. Slid it down beside the engine then pulled the paper off with the help of a yardstick. Trimmed all the edges with Mylar tape.
In my case the biggest help was closing off the backside of the motor. It was originally open to the shaft alley and cockpit locker/lazzerette. Lots of noise and heat when you open the cockpit lockers.
I put a 12volt blower to force in fresh air and vented the hot air back to one of the cowls at the transom. We welcome the extra heat here in the bay area but I lived in Annapolis for 10years so I can understand you wanting to insulate the hoses. I also rewired my cockpit locker space. Got rid of the crappy OEM engine harness coil and problem plugs and used real marine grade wire.
Thanks for sharing the mainsail measurements when you get them

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Yeah my engine compartment looks a little different, engine does too. Which engine do you have? I have witing harnesses, fuel pump, fuel filter, and my shower sump pump mounted in there. This makes more stuff to remove and then reattach after the insulation is in. Plus I need to get all the old crap that is peeling and crumbling away out. Dont know if I am going to get to it this winter. I may just do something temporary to improve the situation and attack it head on next winter. I'm thinking of doing a top end rebuild next winter on the motor anyway. That glacier bay stuff is really nice but damn is it expensive. I saw it on www.jackrabbit.com and was amazed at the px. I have my blower set up to pull hot air out of the compartment at the top and have a fresh air feed on the bottom. I worry that in trying to push cool air in I would not be able to adequately direct the hot air out of the vent and it would end up finding its way in the cockpit locker and may the cabin.

 

[stbdtack]

Engine room

Ive got a 5432 (M-40?). Funny story about the sound insulation, I was at the Glacier Bay Booth during the boat show and was wearing an "Animal Cancer Research" tshirt. The owner Kevin is a real animal lover so he gave me half off.(I swear its true).
Otherwise I would have had a hard time spending that much on insulation. It's nice stuff but the "sound down" material works well too.

I made the insulation seal tightly with the stairs/cover (its hinged with latches) so I dont get any "blow by" from the engine room fan forcing air in. Pretty much all goes out the vent. And I like to think the slight pressure increase gives me a little more power

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I think thats the same motor I have but my raw water pump looks different and my oil filter is right below it. Where is your oil filter located?

 

[stbdtack]

Ted , gettin off topic , I'll start a thread in Maint&Mech. to answer......

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Got ther numbers

My sailmaker from Quantum was down in FL for Miami race week and just got me the girth numbers from my main.

MGU (upper) is 5.31
MGM (Mid) is 9.01

So sounds like it is max per PHRF based on the numbers quoted in the first post on this thread. My leech does not touch the backstay IIRC, its been a few months now since I sailed the boat. Looking at the older posts here, esp the one from Seth I wonder if I need to measure the sail myself? Seth says that it should surely be touching the backstay if the girth numbers are in fact maxed. I am pretty sure mine clears, but will check in a few weeks when it warms up a bit more. Too busy racing my jet 14 these days...

 

[stbdtack]

thanks
yes those are the maximum numbers I came up with too. But there should be an overlap with the backstay at the max measures (according to doyle). I'm going to measure the rig and lay it out on my cad system to see what it shows.

Doyle is going to make me another main with the max allowed. The one I just got came out a little small (for reasons no one can explain). Anyway I'm going to San Diego where there is no wind so I need all the main I can get. The smaller one I just got is beautiful and is amazing in the SF bay wind. But I figure I can always reef if I need less main, cant add to it if I need more.

Doyle says the max PHRF sail will be 490 sqft?? You said yours was 460?? Anyway it sounds scary big.

Soooooo...... Doyle San Francisco will have a "3 times sailed" DP CXG 14/21 carbon/spectra/pentex 5 full batten main for sale really cheap Anybody thats interested let me know.

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

I am tempted to measure my sail and ask Q WTF? if it does measure as they state. I specifically asked for max per phrf and I believe it even says so in the quote sheet they gave me, not to mention the sailmakers response to my asking what the girth numbers were for my sail. OTOH I am pretty happy with the sail and don't know if I really need that much more main. Your pentex/carbon/spectra main looks great. I did not go the full race mode as I do more cruising with this boat than anything else and the money involved was tough to convince the wifey...

 

[Loren Beach]

Hi Ben,
What size is your main-for-sail/sale?
It's probably way too big for my Olson, but it just looks SO nice in the photo.....
Our P= 37'3" and E= 13'6", per an old brochure laying around.

Loren

 

[hodo]

How much is it going for? Harold