tenders
Innocent Bystander
It probably will be but repowering a boat can be a huge project. Does the new engine have the same angle coming off the transmission as the old one? If not, you're in for a big fuss replacing the stern tube and strut to accommodate the new geometry. Then there's the new engine beds, engine control hardware, and possibly a new fuel tank. And new prop. I would do almost anything to keep a similar model of Palmer in there if I were you.
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
Ditto on what Tenders had to say. Palmer and Universal A-4 have different footprints too so I'm not sure a Universal Diesal would be the easiest swap. You need to find the model number on the Volvo and then get the specs on the mounts and angles. Whats wrong with the palmer? I prefer diesels to gas but the cost is not always worth it as gas can be fine if treated properly.
thanks
I am told that one cyl has cracked ring (no comp- and fluid
test leeks by)
The motor - controls- trans come with it
The palmer would have to come out for this repair
anyway and I understand that if anything should happen
to the exhaust manifold , it cannot be replaced.
I am told that the Volvo should fit but it might be slightly taller
requiring a modification to the engine box.
ChuckA
Yeah, it's a lot of work to switch from gas to Diesel, but so worth it. It's less dangerous for one. Gas engines stink for two. And for three, you will get a lot further range form the same number of gallons with the diesel. New engine beds aren't that hard. You can make a light wooden jig that tells you exactly where the mounting points for the engine are in relation to the prop shaft flang. Bolt the jig right on to the prop shaft flange and bolt the engine mounts to the bottom of the jig, and there's your guide. Trim the cores for the engine stringers until they fit the space below the engine mounts, and then glass them in.
bayhoss
Member III
do your homework
One thing that I would be very certain of before I selected a replacement motor is how available are the parts, and are they priced within reason. Some brands of motors have few resources for parts which drives the price upward in a big way. You also can find yourself waiting a long time for a back ordered part to arrive. Pick a few things like water pumps, t'stats, belts, injectors and pumps and check for price and availability before you chose. Also check for small items that can be bastard sized like "O" rings, cooling system hoses, and (belive it or not) coolant storage caps (aka radiator cap) to see if you have sources for them. A small amount of homework in advance can save some serious head banging in the future.
Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
One thing that I would be very certain of before I selected a replacement motor is how available are the parts, and are they priced within reason. Some brands of motors have few resources for parts which drives the price upward in a big way. You also can find yourself waiting a long time for a back ordered part to arrive. Pick a few things like water pumps, t'stats, belts, injectors and pumps and check for price and availability before you chose. Also check for small items that can be bastard sized like "O" rings, cooling system hoses, and (belive it or not) coolant storage caps (aka radiator cap) to see if you have sources for them. A small amount of homework in advance can save some serious head banging in the future.
Best,
Frank
E28+ Valinor
tenders
Innocent Bystander
I'm not saying don't do this, but definitely don't do it for the wrong reasons!
> It's less dangerous for one.
Poppycock. There are zillions of ways to get hurt on a boat; fuel isn't a significant one. Hundreds of thousands of quarter-witted motorboat owners put gas in their I/Os and outboards every weekend all season long and don't blow themselves up. Hundreds of millions of even dumber people put gas in their cars every day all year. Even a half-witted sailboat owner can remember to turn the blower on. And are you taking a dinghy anywhere? The outboard for that probably doesn't run on diesel so you've got gas on the boat anyway.
> Gas engines stink for two.
Hornswoggle. Sure, they stink compared to the sails, but not compared to diesel fuel or diesel exhaust. In fact I'd make the opposite argument AGAINST diesel.
> And for three, you will get a lot further range from the same number of gallons with the diesel.
Fiddle-faddle. It is true that you COULD get a lot further range, but how far are you going with your 27? Potential range is irrelevant unless you're cruising, in which case gasoline's shortcoming is easily remedied with a jerrycan or two, and possibly mitigated with the ease with which gasoline can be acquired. You can carry 100 miles' worth of gas in the tank and two 5-gallon jerrycans, and that's barely trying. How much is having the ability to go two or three times that distance without refueling worth?
> New engine beds aren't that hard
Balderdash. Compared to dropping a repaired or replaced original engine back onto its mounts and reconnecting everything in half a day, new engine beds are pretty tough. Even once you get the beds remade, you have to find a strut that will work with the new engine transmission angle and fit into your boat the appropriate distance from the engine. This is a huge project. It's tough replacing a strut even without replacing the engine.
> It's less dangerous for one.
Poppycock. There are zillions of ways to get hurt on a boat; fuel isn't a significant one. Hundreds of thousands of quarter-witted motorboat owners put gas in their I/Os and outboards every weekend all season long and don't blow themselves up. Hundreds of millions of even dumber people put gas in their cars every day all year. Even a half-witted sailboat owner can remember to turn the blower on. And are you taking a dinghy anywhere? The outboard for that probably doesn't run on diesel so you've got gas on the boat anyway.
> Gas engines stink for two.
Hornswoggle. Sure, they stink compared to the sails, but not compared to diesel fuel or diesel exhaust. In fact I'd make the opposite argument AGAINST diesel.
> And for three, you will get a lot further range from the same number of gallons with the diesel.
Fiddle-faddle. It is true that you COULD get a lot further range, but how far are you going with your 27? Potential range is irrelevant unless you're cruising, in which case gasoline's shortcoming is easily remedied with a jerrycan or two, and possibly mitigated with the ease with which gasoline can be acquired. You can carry 100 miles' worth of gas in the tank and two 5-gallon jerrycans, and that's barely trying. How much is having the ability to go two or three times that distance without refueling worth?
> New engine beds aren't that hard
Balderdash. Compared to dropping a repaired or replaced original engine back onto its mounts and reconnecting everything in half a day, new engine beds are pretty tough. Even once you get the beds remade, you have to find a strut that will work with the new engine transmission angle and fit into your boat the appropriate distance from the engine. This is a huge project. It's tough replacing a strut even without replacing the engine.
Falder Balder Poppy Dash Cock to you Tender. Actually I think the old atomic four and the original sails on my boat both stunk about equal. Gas is not the same danger on a dingy where you have no interior volume of air trapped below waterline. Although you may have gas for a dingy on your sailboat, you won't be storing it indoors below waterline. That gas engines stink on a sail boat is not some strange academic thesis that I just pulled out of my ass; it is an unavoidable fact. Gas atomizes in a way that diesel doesn't, and since the gas engines in boats are old engines with simple carburators, they are much stinkier then modern injected engines. There is a reason that sailboats have been delivered with diesel engines for the last 30 years. As far as range is concerned, I think it is a concern even for a 27 ft boat. For instance, going from LA to the channel islands and back (not an unusual trip for a sail boat here in Southern California), you need at least 35 engine hours on board. With a gas engine on the boat, you are not going to get that out of the 20 gal tank. You will get that with a diesel. Yeah, you can take jury cans full of gas on board, but they aren't as safe as bladders of diesel, or as easy to store. Another point that I didn't mention is that diesels are just more trouble free in a marine environment. No ignition system to corrode.
Sven
Seglare
Hi Brisdon,
I tried to imagine what you are talking about but came up short. We're not about to change out our engine but I'm always ready to learn something from a shipwright and store it away for future use.
Do you have a picture or drawing illustrating such a jig ?
Thanks,
-Sven
I tried to imagine what you are talking about but came up short. We're not about to change out our engine but I'm always ready to learn something from a shipwright and store it away for future use.
Do you have a picture or drawing illustrating such a jig ?
Thanks,
-Sven
Engine template.
Sven, Here's a link to a great site that I visit daily. This is one guy who singlehandedly takes on any and all boat projects up to and including total restoration is a good learning tool as well completely interesting every day I view it. This particular link is specifically about an engine template he's made that I've seen him make on other boats too. Note the accuracy of it including the string through the center of where the shaft will be, etc. http://www.lackeysailing.com/equinox/january09/10209.htm#template You might want to bookmark this site and do as I do and stop by every morning to see the previous days' work. It's really cool to see how well and thorough he is with every aspect of the work he does. Enjoy, Glyn
Sven, Here's a link to a great site that I visit daily. This is one guy who singlehandedly takes on any and all boat projects up to and including total restoration is a good learning tool as well completely interesting every day I view it. This particular link is specifically about an engine template he's made that I've seen him make on other boats too. Note the accuracy of it including the string through the center of where the shaft will be, etc. http://www.lackeysailing.com/equinox/january09/10209.htm#template You might want to bookmark this site and do as I do and stop by every morning to see the previous days' work. It's really cool to see how well and thorough he is with every aspect of the work he does. Enjoy, Glyn
Sven
Seglare
Glyn,
Nice site !
I hadn't seen that one before and I thought I'd already reached the end of the internet
-Sven
Nice site !
I hadn't seen that one before and I thought I'd already reached the end of the internet
-Sven
Just one more Click...
There are several sites with variations of this message... and this one sez it well:
http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
Loren
Glyn,
Nice site !
I hadn't seen that one before and I thought I'd already reached the end of the internet
-Sven
There are several sites with variations of this message... and this one sez it well:
http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
Loren
Sven, the site at <http://www.lackeysailing.com/equinox...9.htm#template> that Glyn posted, really defines the engine template well. The only thing I do differently, is I cut the whole center out of the template so that it is only a square frame with room to reach down in the middle. That way I can reach under it easily when I'm fitting the cores for the new engine stringers. Also it's lighter when you bolt it up to the shaft flange. One important thing he mentions on the site is that he bolted the engine mounts to the template in the middle of their run, so that the engine could be adjusted up or down once it was on the new stringers. So yeah, that's kind of it.
Engine Replacement Jig / Fiberglass Stringers
Here are some pics of an Engine Stringer Jig that simulates where your Engine Mounts will be for New Stringer fabrication. The plywood base is your Engine Mount template. The Engine Stringer Jig mounts to the Prop Shaft. REMEMBER to position your Prop Shaft in the Original operating position. Without the Engine the Prop Shaft will LAY in your Bilge Floor !
The Stringers are HiDensity Styrofoam with 1/2" Fiberglass/Filler (8 layers roving/cloth). Had to take er' down to the Hull and start over
Happy RePower
Here are some pics of an Engine Stringer Jig that simulates where your Engine Mounts will be for New Stringer fabrication. The plywood base is your Engine Mount template. The Engine Stringer Jig mounts to the Prop Shaft. REMEMBER to position your Prop Shaft in the Original operating position. Without the Engine the Prop Shaft will LAY in your Bilge Floor !
The Stringers are HiDensity Styrofoam with 1/2" Fiberglass/Filler (8 layers roving/cloth). Had to take er' down to the Hull and start over
Happy RePower
Attachments
-
NoStringers1.JPG -
Engine Stringer Jig1.jpg -
Engine Stringer Jig2.JPG -
Stringers 1.jpg -
Stringers2.JPG
The Atomic 4 Boogie
I love this never ending Story.......
Here are some things to consider when it's time for RePower....
Sailor-Mechanic-Handyman-Computer Geek...be honest with yourself !
1. Can you ReBuild an Atomic 4 on your own ? That makes it realistic.
2. The Ericsons under 30' are not worth enough to justify a new Diesel.
3. As you can not ReBuild your Atomic 4,abandon the Engine and go Outboard
4. Used Diesels are usually not worth the Time and Effort
5. ReBuilding a Diesel is WAY over the Head of most Garage Mechanics and the Parts Bill will equal a New Engine.
An Atomic 4 is really no more than a 4cylinder FlatHead Lawnmower Engine.
So if you are a REAL Grease Monkey and can Rebuild that old Atomic 4..do it !
Most Owners can not Rebuild these Engines and the 4cycle Outboard is a good option.
Happy Auxilliary
I love this never ending Story.......
Here are some things to consider when it's time for RePower....
Sailor-Mechanic-Handyman-Computer Geek...be honest with yourself !
1. Can you ReBuild an Atomic 4 on your own ? That makes it realistic.
2. The Ericsons under 30' are not worth enough to justify a new Diesel.
3. As you can not ReBuild your Atomic 4,abandon the Engine and go Outboard
4. Used Diesels are usually not worth the Time and Effort
5. ReBuilding a Diesel is WAY over the Head of most Garage Mechanics and the Parts Bill will equal a New Engine.
An Atomic 4 is really no more than a 4cylinder FlatHead Lawnmower Engine.
So if you are a REAL Grease Monkey and can Rebuild that old Atomic 4..do it !
Most Owners can not Rebuild these Engines and the 4cycle Outboard is a good option.
Happy Auxilliary
tenders
Innocent Bystander
The biggest issue with this otherwise sound advice is: he's got a Palmer engine, not an Atomic 4, and I don't know that there is a Don Moyer or moyermarine.com of Palmer engines.
I love this never ending Story.......
Here are some things to consider when it's time for RePower....
Sailor-Mechanic-Handyman-Computer Geek...be honest with yourself !
1. Can you ReBuild an Atomic 4 on your own ? That makes it realistic.
2. The Ericsons under 30' are not worth enough to justify a new Diesel.
3. As you can not ReBuild your Atomic 4,abandon the Engine and go Outboard
4. Used Diesels are usually not worth the Time and Effort
5. ReBuilding a Diesel is WAY over the Head of most Garage Mechanics and the Parts Bill will equal a New Engine.
An Atomic 4 is really no more than a 4cylinder FlatHead Lawnmower Engine.
So if you are a REAL Grease Monkey and can Rebuild that old Atomic 4..do it !
Most Owners can not Rebuild these Engines and the 4cycle Outboard is a good option.
Happy Auxilliary