E35-3, yet another thread on Sole Replacement

[Prairie Schooner]

This is a continuation of a conversation started in:

Weekend projects

We successfully installed a new water pump today and will be installing the new set up for the chartplotter tomorrow. What's on your weekend boat project list?

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks for your input on my project.
@Bolo @Kenneth K @Shannon & Doran Jones @Loren Beach @Chschaus @peaman

I was planning on just reinstalling the sole as close as possible to what came out of the factory. Based on your input I’m going to make it removable. I thought it might be worth starting a new thread with some of the challenges I’m specifically having with the 35-3.

These have been my references thus far:
http://www.tkronaboat.com/cabin-sole-replacement.html E35-3
on a 35-3 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/my-3-4-solid-marine-holly-teak-sole-going-in-this-week.18361/

Removal of Glued-Down Cabin Sole [Master Thread]

Unfortunately, my boat is one of the models where Ericson glued down the teak and holly sole. Has anyone ever removed it on a similar boat and how big of a job is it?

ericsonyachts.org

E38 Cabin Sole

Hi everyone can anyone tell me if the cabin sole on a 1988 or 1989 E38 is glued or just screwed down or, it would depend on who was doing that job on a given day at the factory?

ericsonyachts.org

https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/cabin-sole-replacement.2423/ bamboo
https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/ericson-38-200-cabin-sole.16568/ lots of pictures
https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/cabin-sole-progress.4717/ E35-3

Need Help Cutting Teak and Holly Panels

Getting ready to install a new sole in my 87 34-2. Have sealed the panels with CPES and am now at the stage where I can begin slicing the sheets up into (10) usable pieces. I made patterns of the existing floor boards out of 4mill plastic film from an art supply store and marked where all of the...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - New Teak & Holly Sole & Cupboard

This winter I finally got around to starting the cosmetic to-do projects that the admiral has been pushing me to do since day one of purchasing my E38. Some of the sole in the galley, head, quarter berth, and companionway entrance had been badly...

ericsonyachts.org

e381 Cabin Sole Replacement

I bit the bullet and had the cabin sole replaced on the e381. I was concerned about how difficult it was going to be to get the old floor out but we were able to get every piece out in good enough shape to use it as a template. All the trim was removed stripped, sanded and refinished. The...

ericsonyachts.org

Matching Replacement Sole Color (stain? )

After some extensive and exhausting research and trials, we are still unable to get a decent match to the original veneer in our 1983 38 ft. It's making us crazy as we really don't want to pull up the pieces that are undamaged, and it would be great if the sole didn't look like a coloring...

ericsonyachts.org

cabin sole removal?

I have a 1987 E34; the shorter keel model. Does anyone know if the cabin sole is glued to the hull? I do not seem able to remove it. Thanks in advance!!!

ericsonyachts.org

Varnished Cabin Sole (again) Pictures

Here are the missing pictures from the Varnishing Cabin Sole (again) thread. http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?13839-Varnishing-cabin-sole-(again)

ericsonyachts.org

O34 - The Olson 34 (Partial) "TAFG" revealed

After way over a decade it's time to sand and revarnish the T&H sole pieces. I removed them today and brought 'em home. A few bronze screws did twist off, evidently being gripped really tight by the fibers in the FRP flanges. I will try to lube...

ericsonyachts.org

repair panel: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/thelonious-ii-delaminated-floorboards-4-minute-video.382/
varnish & epoxy

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Because of all the great info available (mostly on this site) I haven’t had a lot of surprises removing things. One I did have was in removing the table base. It was fastened in three different ways, coded in the attached photo. 1) machine screw through sole & TAFG, to a nut (I assume) 2) machine screw through sole to a nut 3) wood screw through sole into TAFG
Underneath the base was the last of many wood screws securing the sole to the TAFG. The wood screw came out fine. I was able to reach the two nuts closest to the bilge opening. But I couldn’t get my hand in the hole to reach the nuts under the grid so I couldn’t remove the base so I didn’t know about that last screw. Too much pressure with a pry bar and I had a broken base.

So, my current plan is to embed 3 (or 4) tee-nuts in the grid with epoxy and do the two that just go through wood with a fender washer and nut. That should make the base removable. Then, I'll be re-imagining the sole as a series of removable panels.

Any and all thoughts welcome.

Diecast aluminum doesn’t weld very well and this was pretty corroded. I found a replacement base online.

 

[JSM]

I replaced the sole in our 34-2 four years ago. The table base was attached to the sole only with wood screws into the flooring. We ended up opting for more room and have not yet reinstalled the table.
When I installed the new sole I just used screws and plugs so that I could have access to the underside in the future.
The old sole was glued in place with clear silicone and was a bitch to get up.
The new sole creaks in a couple of places when stepped on but otherwise is just fine without being glued.

 

[RCsailfast]

My table leg is attached with wood screws as well. I would consider epoxying in thread inserts. I am installing them for the DC panel mounting screws as the wood is stripped and isn’t thick enough to install tee nuts. Was planning on tee nuts for a small removable panel that’s under the Nav table where the wood is stripped as well. My concern is they will get pushed out trying to insert the screws.
Glad you could find a replacement base. They a manufactured by Taco now and the table tube is a bit smaller. I got a new insert tube so we could lift the table higher. It is still able to be clamped the the knob but a bit loose where it attaches to the table. Shims are in the works to tighten that up.
We also drilled a hole through it just above the base and made a pin to insert and keeps it from drifting down. This also made it easier setting the height by quickly inserting the pin vs holding the table up while tightening the knob

 

[Loren Beach]

Ya Know, looking at that broken base, I bet that a mold could be made from the reassembled pieces. Then a new base could be build up with thickened epoxy and cloth. The whole flat part could be one piece of G10. Strong and it would never fracture like the more brittle cast aluminum.
Just a thought.........

 

[Parrothead]

Thinking outside the box a little on replacement rather than repair, Google 'Light Pole Base" and click 'Images'. I replaced my single leg table base 17 years ago with a light pole base from Progress Lighting and it has been rock solid. Acclaim Lighting has bases available through Home Depot and Lowe's for a little less money but beyond that I can neither endorse nor poo-poo them because I have no experience with that brand in particular. However, if they'll hold up a light pole, they'll hold up a table.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

My table leg is attached with wood screws as well. I would consider epoxying in thread inserts. I am installing them for the DC panel mounting screws as the wood is stripped and isn’t thick enough to install tee nuts. Was planning on tee nuts for a small removable panel that’s under the Nav table where the wood is stripped as well. My concern is they will get pushed out trying to insert the screws.
Glad you could find a replacement base. They a manufactured by Taco now and the table tube is a bit smaller. I got a new insert tube so we could lift the table higher. It is still able to be clamped the the knob but a bit loose where it attaches to the table. Shims are in the works to tighten that up.
We also drilled a hole through it just above the base and made a pin to insert and keeps it from drifting down. This also made it easier setting the height by quickly inserting the pin vs holding the table up while tightening the knob

Thanks Randy. I wish boat designers/manufacturers would build so things can be disassembled and maintained. (A very old dog-eared complaint if ever there was one.) I'm planning to epoxy tee nuts into holes I'll grind in the top of the grid, with points down. We threw a bunch of stuff under the nav table and I haven't even seen that little panel yet! Great ideas on fine-tuning the table architecture. Definitely items I'll look into once we get the red letter items on our list done.
BTW, shout out to Fisheries Supply customer service agent Kyle. They had the Zwaardvis/Taco base. When I asked a technical question about it, he actually went back to the warehouse to look at the item, confirmed the information, and called me back. Outstanding!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Ya Know, looking at that broken base, I bet that a mold could be made from the reassembled pieces. Then a new base could be build up with thickened epoxy and cloth. The whole flat part could be one piece of G10. Strong and it would never fracture like the more brittle cast aluminum.
Just a thought.........

Got me thinking, Loren. I'd probably reassemble the base, fair it out, prime and polish it and take a mold (plaster or fiberglass). Then I'd build up in the negative. That G10 plate at the bottom would be perfect. I'll put that idea in my memory banks if the replacement Taco unit breaks.

Twenty five years ago, my son had one of those plastic guns that shot ping pong balls, probably cost a couple bucks. It stopped working. The plastic was clear so I could see what was wrong, inside. I pried it apart, fixed the part, and reassembled it. Took about two hours. At the time the lowest rate I was charging clients was $50/hr. My son was the proud owner of a $100 toy.

I am seriously considering building a custom pod to house the Zeus 9 that we're having hooked up. All the commercially available pods are so big and chunky. Thinking for the first year we'll just mount the chartplotter to the pedestal guard on the bracket and store it in the cabin when not in use. One way to make the pod would be to create a pattern, take a mold, and build inside that with gelcoat, glass, etc. similar to what you suggest. Haven't thought out the details much.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Thinking outside the box a little on replacement rather than repair, Google 'Light Pole Base" and click 'Images'. I replaced my single leg table base 17 years ago with a light pole base from Progress Lighting and it has been rock solid. Acclaim Lighting has bases available through Home Depot and Lowe's for a little less money but beyond that I can neither endorse nor poo-poo them because I have no experience with that brand in particular. However, if they'll hold up a light pole, they'll hold up a table.

Thanks @Parrothead I never thought of that connection. There are so many things out there that have the same function as marine items without paying the marine item premium. If the replacement Taco unit breaks this is definitely where I'd head next. If that breaks, then I'm doing Loren's plan!
The sole on your boat is beautiful. What kind of boat is it? It looks newer than our '86.

 

[Parrothead]

Full disclosure
I'm not an Ericson owner but was invited to participate here a few years ago because of my employment experience in the boat building industry during the 1970's. My boat is a first gen Catalina 30, the sole you admired is Lonseal. I was involved in member Alan Gomes' Lonseal cabin sole project on his Ericson 26-2 and really liked the product. If I recall, his project was posted here and mine was featured in the tech section of Mainsheet Magazine, Summer 2019 (pg 31 of the magazine, pg 33 of the pdf).

As for my boat looking newer than your '86, thank you. It's a 1977.

https://secureservercdn.net/192.169.220.85/wvz.6de.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/MAINSHEET_SUMMER2019_UNLOCKED.pdf

 

[Loren Beach]

Good article. Great pix and narrative. Big project! Result was worth it, tho. IMHO. Like a new boat indeed.
Thanks.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Full disclosure
I'm not an Ericson owner but was invited to participate here a few years ago because of my employment experience in the boat building industry during the 1970's. My boat is a first gen Catalina 30, the sole you admired is Lonseal. I was involved in member Alan Gomes' Lonseal cabin sole project on his Ericson 26-2 and really liked the product. If I recall, his project was posted here and mine was featured in the tech section of Mainsheet Magazine, Summer 2019 (pg 31 of the magazine, pg 33 of the pdf).

As for my boat looking newer than your '86, thank you. It's a 1977.

Michael,
My first (and only other) sailboat was a '74 Catalina 22. Great boats. Thanks for adding your experience here! I've only had time to skim your article, but will definitely review it carefully before I proceed further with the sole. The results are first rate!! Thanks.
Jeff

 

[Parrothead]

Big project! Result was worth it, tho. IMHO. Like a new boat indeed.

Thanks Loren. I have a knack for turning little projects into big ones. Someday ask Alan about his stbd seatback modification. That one was a doozy but in the end, particularly rewarding.

Jeff,
A major factor in my selection of Lonseal for my cabin sole replacement project is that once it's done, it's done for good. It won't scuff, rot, delaminate or turn ugly over time and never requires refinishing. Also, it is NOT household flooring. If removable sole panels are what you want, Lonseal can be applied over replacement plywood panels, preferably epoxy treated plywood. That's what we did with Alan's. I've attached pictures of his sole project in the patterning - prior to sole removal phase, after the original sole removal and the finished Lonseal sole.

Finally, seeing how the header of the article is written it's an easy error to make. Michael Dupin is the Catalina 30 tech editor of Mainsheet Magazine. Elsewhere in the same header is my name as the content contributor. At the end of the article is a brief resume' of my experience.

 

[Loren Beach]

Product Details

lonseal.com

If I understand the spec sheet (and am viewing the correct product) the thickness is about 3/32" in ruler fractions. This must be bonded to a plywood substrate to create stiffness..
Irony: if I ever sand down my 1988 T&H sole again, the veneer layer will be mostly gone. That might be the time to bond something like this to the top of the plywood. There would then be a lot of "teak" trims to go around all of the access plates, and the edges adjacent to them.
Interesting idea. Thanks!

 

[Parrothead]

There would then be a lot of "teak" trims to go around all of the access plates, and the edges adjacent to them.

True but the detail will make a noticeable difference in the finished project. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Gotta get the holly stripes to carry through the bilge hatches too.

 

[Loren Beach]

True but the detail will make a noticeable difference in the finished project. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. Gotta get the holly stripes to carry through the bilge hatches too.

Are those trims for the edges made of the same material? From the picture it looks like they are.

 

[Parrothead]

No, they are solid teak from my scrap bin. Here's a close-up of one of Alan's bilge hatches. One more little detail, on Alan's boat we used rectangular lift rings, mortising them into the bilge hatches by hand. By the time I did mine I had found round ones making the mortise operation much easier and more precise with a drill press and Forstener bits. No hand work at all.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . .
Jeff,
A major factor in my selection of Lonseal for my cabin sole replacement project is that once it's done, it's done for good. . . . If removable sole panels are what you want, Lonseal can be applied over replacement plywood panels, preferably epoxy treated plywood. . . . I've attached pictures of his sole project in the patterning - prior to sole removal phase, after the original sole removal and the finished Lonseal sole.

Finally, seeing how the header of the article is written it's an easy error to make. Michael Dupin is the Catalina 30 tech editor of Mainsheet Magazine. Elsewhere in the same header is my name as the content contributor. At the end of the article is a brief resume' of my experience.

Neil,
Sorry for the mistake on your name. Thanks for the great article. I really must sit down and read in detail.
We seriously considered a synthetic flooring, but as of a month ago couldn't find one we had confidence in. We now have two sheets of 1/4" T&H ply in the garage. But the build principles you outline look really helpful.
Jeff

 

[Alan Gomes]

I was involved in member Alan Gomes' Lonseal cabin sole project

That's more than a little bit of an understatement, Neil.

 

[Alan Gomes]

A major factor in my selection of Lonseal for my cabin sole replacement project is that once it's done, it's done for good. It won't scuff, rot, delaminate or turn ugly over time and never requires refinishing.

I can definitely confirm this. Neil (with some unskilled assistance from me) did this job almost 7 years ago and it looks as good as it did when originally installed. Very durable stuff. Also, I do not find the surface slippery, so I haven't had an issues with that while under way.