Replacement of Cabin Sole [Master Thread]

[footrope]

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Loren,

Is that view stat broken down by dates? It might show that the square head controversy is skewing the stats.

I'm sticking with Phillips. There are square drive screws holding on my US-made dink's fancy wood trim, floor and seats. I've bought two sets of square drive bits and have lost the middle (and most-needed) size from both sets. Not sure what to blame that on, but I don't seem to lose the phillips bits. In fact I can't recall how I lost them, so maybe they're not at the bottom of the river. They could be lying on the dock!

Can one buy the square head bits by the box?

 

[sleather]

[ ] drive

Craig, I picked a screw driver set made by Black & Decker awhile back that has every bit known to man(including squares). They are the "hex" bit/changeable type. They "may" sell individual replacement bits at the hardware store. Just a thought.

 

[Loren Beach]

Similar sole replacement on a Cal 28

Nice work on a Cal. Link is from another site.
Interestingly, this owner mentions help from Tim who earlier posted his wood working project link on this site.
Sometimes it's kind of a small world!


http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=132725

The pictures on the photo site link from within the thread are very clear. Router was used for the precision cuts, wouldn't ya know.

Enjoy,
LB

 

[Christian Williams]

For the record, here are photos of my 32-3 TAFG ("Tri-Axial Force Grid", the hull insert of '80s Ericsons) and sole. Like others, the original glued-down sole was destroyed by immersion and time. For the new sole I went with two coats of CPES, five coats of Jet Speed and three of Schooner varnish. I installed a temporary sole of rough plywood in the boat, and built the new sole in the garage. Varnishing alone took about two weeks.



After some consideration I choose to have only one inspection port, over the main bilge pump. Since the sections of new sole are screwed into the TGF, any of them is easy to remove to access Whale pump or shower bilge.


The Ericson TGF liner is this area is nearly an inch thick. When screwing the sole down with stainless screws, drill the correct pilot hole. It's easy to break a stainless screw off, and not easy to unbreak it off.

...

 

[Kenneth K]

I just got the first section of cabin sole removed last night. Tools of choice were a putty knife and an aluminum yardstick cut down to 24 in. I could insert, jam, wiggle, and hammer the yardstick between the plywood and the TAFG. I think the cold temperatures helped, I could hear the adhesive groaning as I pried the yardstick underneath and pulled up on the board with my fingers.

I think the sole is worth saving by sanding and refinishing. I did a test run with some of the bilge cover plates and the results have been good. Light sanding with a palm sander, and then hand sanding the narrow Holly strips until they regain their "light" color.



I'd like to treat the underside of the plywood but CPES, but first I have to remove the gummy red adhesive. Any recommendations on the easiest way to do that: heat gun, solvents, belt sander?



Also, it smells like at least some of the plywood has absorbed some diesel fuel from spills over the years. I don't know if that will adversely affect the CPES treatment or not.

 

[Loren Beach]

Congratulations on a successful sole removal Ken.


Our go-to teak cleaning chemical combo is still the two part Te-Ka product.
I bet it would take all or most of the old diesel small out of the bottom layer, as well.

Be sure to wear your latex gloves.

 

[Christian Williams]

"Marine Formula Debond" is most powerful adhesive remover I have found. Heat gun and scraper first.

The T&H is 1/16th laminate or less so sand gingerly.

 

[Kenneth K]

Topcoat for Sole - Varnish or Polyurethane?

Thanks for the recommendations, now I have two products I can use.

I had purchased Epiphane's varnish for the finish coat on the bilge covers, but read earlier in this post that varnish doesn't hold up well on the sole. People used to recommend a product called Ultimatesole, but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. I read that it was a "marine" knock-off on basketball court sealer. Other product's I've come across:

Minwax Polyurethane - recommended by several on Sailnet, and
Fixall Gym Seal - an "industrial phenolic varnish"

What have folks here found effective? Christian, it sounds like you still advise 6 or so coats of varnish over 2 of CPES--does that hold up well in your experience?

 

[Christian Williams]

I guess all I have is my own experience, so it's like marriage advice from somebody happily married.

Starting from wood as you are, I think it's noncontroversial that CPES is key.

RE varnish: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?648-Ericson-38-Varnish-Again

 

[Loren Beach]

Back when this was a younger thread I used about 5 coats of "Captains" Varnish and while the surface is getting dull from wear it still looks pretty good.
I suspect that any decent brand will do the job. I did apply a couple of coats on the bottom and the edges as well.

 

[Kenneth K]

...... so its like marriage advice from somebody happily married.

Funny, from time to time I get some complaints from the other-half about how much time I spend working on the boat. Is there a recommended fix for that.....

 

[supersailor]

Tell her you could be spending time down at the local bar instead. Then run for your life.

 

[frick]

Rivnuts

I was on a Swan a couple of years ago and remember being impressed by the way the sole rested on a metal frame and any section could be quickly removed without tools to access the mechanical systems underneath. Not sure where to get similar fasteners or how hard they are to install. There is also a lot to be said for being able to remove the sole for re-varnishing.

On one of my boats I used Rivnuts to create a bolt down section... I good friend has the tool (airplane repair guy) and together we got the job done.
The Rivet is internal threaded tube that is set in place with a special hand tool. Once in, a bolt can be threaded down the tube. and it holds tight.

It was much cheaper then buying the quick twist SS fasteners. It held for year, then I sold that boat for my E29.

Rick+

 

[Kenneth K]

TAFG inspection covers

Looking at other posts, I'm envious of those that show their plywood TAFG cover plates attached to the bottom of the sole. Makes sense....unscrew the sole, raise it, and have open access to all bilge and TAFG pockets.

Not so on my boat. The plywood covers are all glued and screwed into place. I guess some prior owner never wanted me to discover what lies underneath. Maybe it's gold coins.



The one small section I've removed so far took about 30 minutes with drills, hammer, and chisel. It came out in splinters.



Seems to make no sense to put the sole back in without removable panels below. Anybody dealt with this before?

 

[Loren Beach]

Adding to the Sole Saga...

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...16568-Ericson-38-200-cabin-sole&referrerid=28

Nice to keep these links together to help searching, IMHO.

Ken, keep looking. The gold is well hidden!

 

[Christian Williams]

Related:

E381 - "Thelonious II" -- Delaminated floorboards -- 4-minute video

In a classic example of little things that go wrong big, a tiny leak under the head sink caused the delamination of the cabin sole near the head. One of those gray Qest hose fittings had split, invisibly, probably as the result of being...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - Ericson 38-- Cabin Sole Replacement, or Renewal?

The cabin sole, or floor, of any Ericson has a long story to tell. Walked on, spilled on, dropped on all it's life, some of which may been spent briefly underwater. The term seems to derive from Old French sole; and Latin solea "sandal, bottom of...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[1911tex]

Just a thought for a temporary fix if your sole had been previously wet so that when walking on it, it feels spongy...like it's going to give way; thus giving you time to do the work properly at a later date.

I purchased one PVC 5"x5" 8' fence post from a local fence distributor for $7. Cut it in 4" and 3" sections (you must measure yours accordingly) and shoved it up under the sole against the bilge. Plenty of room there for a couple under the sole in each bilge section.

Makes the sole solid to walk on and the PVC will never deteriorate. It's temporary and works.

Also around the mast base where you can't scoot a 5x5 section due to lack of room..cut the section in half. Whatever it takes.

 

[JSM]

Thanks to this thread and others I was able to replace the sole in our 34-2. The original sole was glued down with clear silicone. Some of the pieces came up easily and some required more persuasion with long pry bars , sawzall etc.
The sole required two sheets of teak and holly plywood. Before cutting the pieces both sheets were treated with Smith's CPES as well as all edges after cutting. The final finish was four coats of Verathane oil based polyurethane semi gloss floor finish which has held up great for the last two years.
All of the bilge boards were given a bottom / edge coat of epoxy to keep them from delaminating and the plastic finger holes were replaced with bronze flange bearings I found at the hardware store.
The sole is held in place with screws only so that they can be taken out if need be.
Probably of of the most satisfying boat porjects I've done so far.

 

[1911tex]

JSM: Sweeeeet !!! Beautiful and perfection !

 

[Kenneth K]

Bronze finger pulls.....what a great idea. Really classy look.